Spring Update - Port of Hamburg

This map is still very unbalanced. When the teams are balanced skill wise this is what I see:

1. Fighting to the fuels from North is harder than from south. Especially on the right side. Every game at my level the people on the right side never see the fuel until end game. Usually the north right team positions get smashed all game and pushed back to the middle. This is mostly from the strength of the house and the narrow opening between the northern territory point area. The left is slightly biased to the North side to make up the difference but the garrison has much less value as it can be attacked with grenades or flames quit easily.

2. Late game, the North teams tend to be massed on the narrow middle bridge above the middle star. Everyone knows this and artillery erases whatever is there. So the North team has no effective way to push the middle star. Which is where every single game ends. If North team does not have a strong mid game, they will lose late game badly. The bridge area needs to be much larger. Remove some of the canal north of the bride to increase land mass.

3. Using the worldbuilder are the distances to each fuel building the same?

This map is still very unbalanced. When the teams are balanced skill wise this is what I see:

1. Fighting to the fuels from North is harder than from south. Especially on the right side. Every game at my level the people on the right side never see the fuel until end game. Usually the north right team positions get smashed all game and pushed back to the middle. This is mostly from the strength of the house and the narrow opening between the northern territory point area. The left is slightly biased to the North side to make up the difference but the garrison has much less value as it can be attacked with grenades or flames quit easily.

2. Late game, the North teams tend to be massed on the narrow middle bridge above the middle star. Everyone knows this and artillery erases whatever is there. So the North team has no effective way to push the middle star. Which is where every single game ends. If North team does not have a strong mid game, they will lose late game badly. The bridge area needs to be much larger. Remove some of the canal north of the bride to increase land mass.

3. Using the worldbuilder are the distances to each fuel building the same?

You saw the second update from me?
1. north gets right fuel most of the times and south side left fuel.

2. I know^^

3. Afaik the mapmakers used it. There was even in the past a big letter to this map. in DBP both fuels got moved.

4. There are still problems out, but i can't remake the whole map, without killing the map self. Then it would not be anymore Port of Hamburg. So I can't do everything what i would prefer.

In all:
I just can tell you that now after DBP and Spring Update Port of Hamburg will be way better to play. And i think alot of 4vs4 causual weekend players will love it. I heard this is one of the favourst map.(Good arty map)

Good I just wanted to point out that the current live version is imbalanced.

If it were me I would:
1. Remove some of the canal north of the middle VP (as above). It would not take much. To give the north army a bigger area to spread out.
2. Remove the small building overlooking Left VP. When pushed the bottleneck it creates makes it hard to defend that area.
3. Remove some of the high fence south of the left fuel. And possible add a wall or some other cover there. When pushed south team has no cover just a large road area.
4. Remove the two large cargo containers just south of middle VP. Use something that can be destroyed by mid game. It creates a bottleneck when defending middle VP.
5. Rework the area just northwest of the middle VP. It is a cluster and creates vague engagements.
6. Remove the stupid sight blocking shrubs north of the middle VP. Derp.
That would be a good start....

Seriously send me the map and I will have it all fixed up in an hour or two. Easy.

Also, all of the other maps feel pretty balanced.

Lanzareth Ambush still feels North favored but the last changes made a big difference. Maybe open the tree line southwest of the middle VP a little more to reduce bottleneck.

Lienne Forrest needs a rework on the right side trees. The North can be flanked from several paths but the South can only flank from one and it is very awkward.

EDIT:
LaGleize feels south favoured due to the left side cutoff. You play that map way more than I do (everytime you stream) so I will leave that all up to you

There are still problems out, but i can't remake the whole map, without killing the map self. Then it would not be anymore Port of Hamburg. So I can't do everything what i would prefer.

As you can see self: Remove, remove, remove. Then it would not be anymore Port of Hamburg

Also the changes were already made long time ago.( Just the unit patch takes allways so long^^)

And yes i agree ofc too Maps before DBP+SBP and now are are 2 worlds

Also the changes were already made long time ago.( Just the unit patch takes allways so long^^)

That is why it is so important to get it right. That is why I spoke up. Now is the time to fix it. I have 24/7 to work on it. Just volunteering.

As always much praise for your hard work and the others that are getting these things done

Also, all of the other maps feel pretty balanced.
Lienne Forrest needs a rework on the right side trees. The North can be flanked from several paths but the South can only flank from one and it is very awkward.

Huh? For me its working fine and you have more ways to flank from south too. You saw the 1 path, where normally no vehicles at all could drive? It is fixed and passable now. From inf you can use 4 flanks into the forrest. that should be enough^^
Northside has 4 too.

But this is kind of offtopic here for Port of Hamburg^^

I think Our (your) first pass at Port of "hamburger" really opened up the maps in the key areas such as north and south fuel I however, still see issues on north central with the only crossing simply being the wooden bridge.

If anything the center of the map is where it starts to fall apart b/c it funnels you into CQC and hard corners meaning its hard to "smoke and flank".
I say this b/c give a large access point from north to center or one that cant be destroyed could go a long way in making sure that rout is easier to keep open rather than getting bombed when you try to repair the bridge by speed mortars (which I know are getting fixed but still).

I think Our (your) first pass at Port of "hamburger" really opened up the maps in the key areas such as north and south fuel I however, still see issues on north central with the only crossing simply being the wooden bridge.

If anything the center of the map is where it starts to fall apart b/c it funnels you into CQC and hard corners meaning its hard to "smoke and flank".
I say this b/c give a large access point from north to center or one that cant be destroyed could go a long way in making sure that rout is easier to keep open rather than getting bombed when you try to repair the bridge by speed mortars (which I know are getting fixed but still).

• Tweaked pathing from North and South side from the bases to the middle of the map

Just wait guys and have trust in me
I try as far as I can to improve the maps, without killing the style of the map self. So everyone still see its the same map.

• Tweaked pathing from North and South side from the bases to the middle of the map

Just wait guys and have trust in me
I try as far as I can to improve the maps, without killing the style of the map self. So everyone still see its the same map.

Thank you for being such a kool dude

Not gonna lie I hated getting shit on my arti on the map so much I started to veto it. Im happy to see some changes to it for sure.

Also happy about the La Gleize changes, for me I felt like spawning Northside was an almost guaranteed loss.

So now there are opportunities to change maps, but a week ago there wasn't? Wut?

So now there are opportunities to change maps, but a week ago there wasn't? Wut?

As i said: The plan and the reworked maps were made already for months ago.

Boom! Fixed. I took Capiqua's latest version and modified it to where Port of Hamburg should be. Note the latest version already had a major change in the north center

Check it out on steam:
Port of Rosbone

Note the latest version already had a major change in the north center

• Tweaked pathing from North and South side from the bases to the middle of the map

Here are the changes I made (would like to see):

1. Open the area north of the middle VP. Was already done in latest version with two rail sections. Great job!


2. Swap out center cargo containers for walls or some other destructable to allow for open late game play. Once again, armies regularly mass northeast of the cargo bays and get rekt by arty because everyone know that is the only place they could be.


3. Modified fence (top) to have some cover value. Added cover in road. Added building to mirror the north.


4. Opened field above right fuel to allow for more hiding places for amassed armies. Especially OKW trucks. They were too easy to wipe with mortar/arty. Also added a building since the south side has 3 points that are nearly untouchable. This gives south a fuel/muni advantage. The north points are constantly taken and can not be cached safely. Also opened the entrance to the field to allow northern armies to push the fuel easier.


5. Moved the left side fuel building to be centered and mirrors the right side fuel. Also removed the small building for north, since, it had no windows and just got in the way most of the time. Added sight blockers so building can be approach from north or south without instant suppression. One added benefit is the south base now takes a path left of its base and crosses the bridge to get to the building. Making the area south of the bridge at least feel like a part of the game. It now takes 1:01 for each spawn to get to the building.

Here are the changes I made (would like to see):

1. Open the area north of the middle VP. Was already done in latest version with two rail sections. Great job!


2. Swap out center cargo containers for walls or some other destructable to allow for open late game play. Once again, armies regularly mass northeast of the cargo bays and get rekt by arty because everyone know that is the only place they could be.


3. Modified fence (top) to have some cover value. Added cover in road. Added building to mirror the north.


4. Opened field above right fuel to allow for more hiding places for amassed armies. Especially OKW trucks. They were too easy to wipe with mortar/arty. Also added a building since the south side has 3 points that are nearly untouchable. This gives south a fuel/muni advantage. The north points are constantly taken and can not be cached safely. Also opened the entrance to the field to allow northern armies to push the fuel easier.


5. Moved the left side fuel building to be centered and mirrors the right side fuel. Also removed the small building for north, since, it had no windows and just got in the way most of the time. Added sight blockers so building can be approach from north or south without instant suppression. One added benefit is the south base now takes a path left of its base and crosses the bridge to get to the building. Making the area south of the bridge at least feel like a part of the game. It now takes 1:01 for each spawn to get to the building.

1 and 3 are kind of already in the spring version.
2 and 4 i am fine with.
5 I am not sure yet.
5) You removed a container as well also added wood to the left vp. You are missing this infos btw^^
The north small houses has window to shoot on the vp.
I can't see the LoS blocker for the house.
Are you sure about the timings? you tested that ingame? It looks for me as south side can get this house faster and now has then fuel control+ vp! with 1 house. And in all it looks easy to hold and recap from south side.
While right side fuel is always contested from both side.
Also don't forget the greencover on right vp.

It looks for me as south side can get this house faster and now has then fuel control+ vp! with 1 house.

You mean like the original does on the east side

Version 2 is now ready:
REMINDER: This map was adjusted to exhibit my ideas of balancing the map. After some adjustments I went crazy with actually making it play better as well.

This version focused on balancing the right side building so that North/South will reach it at the same time. There were also some eye candy changes such as additional trees, grass, and shrubs. The rail lines above the center VP were removed and a fenced in storage area was added.


1. RIGHT SIDE BALANCE: To get the right side building to be the same distance for North/south took moving the North bases a lot. Three buildings had to be removed and the large fuel containers were moved to decrease pathing distance.


2. RIGHT SIDE BALANCE: I removed some of the green cover around the fuel and added green cover to the south side. The south side probably needs more cover to mirror the walls around the fuel. Many times when the south gets pushed out by the north team, they have no cover to fight back into position. Base rape is usually next. Many games see the south getting the fuel then being pushed out late game and never recovering. I also removed the brick debris piles around the fuel, as they have very strange LOS blocking issues. Maybe they were intentional. I do not like ambiguous LOS, so they are gone.


3. I removed a train section to make two paths out of your base. I also removed some debris around the destroyed building so units could sneak thru easier.


4. RIGHT SIDE BALANCE: Some distance needed to be added to the south base to get the timing to the building balanced. The fence in front of the base was extended and the fuel containers were moved to force a longer path.


5. LEFT SIDE BALANCE: As Sturmpanther noted, the south was still getting to the LEFT side faster. A fence and some debris were added to increase the pathing distance from south to left building. Interesting thing is how the Worldbuilder measuring tool is not very accurate. Also moved/removed objects left of the base to increase light vehicle movement (the clustertrucks).


6. LEFT SIDE BALANCE: Added a crane and more concrete panels to add LOS blocks. Not sure if they should be included, but there are flanks thru the industrial area on Right side, so they were added to reduce domination.


7. The upper dock section had some objects removed to allow for more OKW trucks and USF ambulance positioning options.


8. Since I was changing everything, I modified the left fuel industrial area. The alternate North/south path is now larger and has LOS blockers for better assaults/retreats. There is also a path on BOTH sides of the industrial area to allow for more flanking. Note: only infantry will fit thru the alternate path.


9. Moving the bases left a blank base area so an enclosed field was created.


10. Objects were moved around in the field above the right fuel. Trees were also added throughout the map by the roads, etc.