Indirect has always been a massive pain ever since they introduced the patch a few years ago that made it lethal, combined now with the patch we have and it is just a joke.
Play as UKF in a team game and you have no way to counter mortars until very late mid/late-game, its just laughable, I appreciate the effort that went into the patch to reduce minimum range and actually require micro but the problem here is, barrages are more accurate than auto fire, and the closer you are to a target, the more accurate your shots are, so auto fire is just as accurate as barrage.
The damage output on the mortar is just insane and combined with the accuracy they have, its just clearly broken.
Mortar damage and accuracy needs a severe reduction, it should be a nuisance, not a nuke, it doesn't take more than a few lucky shots from an infantry to infantry fight followed up by a mortar shot to wipe an entire unit, time a rifle nade with a mortar and you have a dead squad.
It has gotten to the point now where I simply can't play team games anymore due to the sheer amount of indirect that gets thrown at you with no way to counter it. By the time a mortar pit is up, a flame HT is running around, or the enemy has 4+ mortars to simply barrage your only indirect source.
The LEig actually seems to be in an OK position compared to the WM mortar, it hurts when it hits but its far from as accurate as the WM mortar, not to mention it comes out much much later so you at least have the forces available to flank it or manoeuvre around it. When a WM mortar comes out, you are lucky to have 3 squads out and if one of them is an MG, you simply, fucked up.
Yeah I am ranting a little bit and salty after a few games where I was shat on my the WM mortar, but surely it isn't just me that feels mortars are over performing?
Mortars/Indirect have broken the game
8 Mar 2018, 12:21 PM
#1
Posts: 773
8 Mar 2018, 14:00 PM
#2
Posts: 2066
So basically only the WM mortar is bad?
Y u no objective bro
Y u no objective bro
Kappa
8 Mar 2018, 14:45 PM
#3
Posts: 26
sniff sniff sniff HACCHOWWWWWW120MMMORTARWWWWWW..
ah sorry it was bit rude to sneeze in here...
sorry for my manners
ah sorry it was bit rude to sneeze in here...
sorry for my manners
8 Mar 2018, 15:05 PM
#4
Posts: 2742
"Mortars OP! etc"
There's your five year plan coming full circle.
There's your five year plan coming full circle.
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8 Mar 2018, 15:52 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
So basically only the WM mortar is bad?
Y u no objective bro
Well, sov mortar was always terribad, pit got massive nerfs, ISG was brought in line, USF mortar lost quite a bit of range and PACK howi, well, no one even remembers it ever existed so yeah, only wm turbomortar is spreading the mortar cancer.
sniff sniff sniff HACCHOWWWWWW120MMMORTARWWWWWW..
ah sorry it was bit rude to sneeze in here...
sorry for my manners
After bazzilion nerfs it got to every singular stat that isn't model count, its fine.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Mar 2018, 16:10 PM
#6
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
On the bright side we've moved on from 120MM mini-nukes, ISG/PAK Howie Suppression, and +33% Auto Attack Range Vet 3 Mortars, and lest we ever forget the accidental Turbo USF Mortar with bugged heat seeking shells. I guess what I'm saying is - it could always be worse. 
8 Mar 2018, 16:12 PM
#7
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
After bazzilion nerfs it got to every singular stat that isn't model count, its fine.
8 Mar 2018, 16:20 PM
#8
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Indirect has always been a massive pain ever since they introduced the patch a few years ago that made it lethal, combined now with the patch we have and it is just a joke.
Play as UKF in a team game and you have no way to counter mortars until very late mid/late-game, its just laughable, I appreciate the effort that went into the patch to reduce minimum range and actually require micro but the problem here is, barrages are more accurate than auto fire, and the closer you are to a target, the more accurate your shots are, so auto fire is just as accurate as barrage.
The damage output on the mortar is just insane and combined with the accuracy they have, its just clearly broken.
Mortar damage and accuracy needs a severe reduction, it should be a nuisance, not a nuke, it doesn't take more than a few lucky shots from an infantry to infantry fight followed up by a mortar shot to wipe an entire unit, time a rifle nade with a mortar and you have a dead squad.
It has gotten to the point now where I simply can't play team games anymore due to the sheer amount of indirect that gets thrown at you with no way to counter it. By the time a mortar pit is up, a flame HT is running around, or the enemy has 4+ mortars to simply barrage your only indirect source.
The LEig actually seems to be in an OK position compared to the WM mortar, it hurts when it hits but its far from as accurate as the WM mortar, not to mention it comes out much much later so you at least have the forces available to flank it or manoeuvre around it. When a WM mortar comes out, you are lucky to have 3 squads out and if one of them is an MG, you simply, fucked up.
Yeah I am ranting a little bit and salty after a few games where I was shat on my the WM mortar, but surely it isn't just me that feels mortars are over performing?
You are totally right. Play UKF vs double Ost in 2v2 and up and you are basically fucked. MG and mortar spam with flame HT almost every game (in 3v3, 4v4).
I think MGs, mortars and all other indirect fire units should get a pop cap increase so they aren´t as spammable anymore in team games. That would solve the issue to some extend without making the units themselves useless.
It is kind of frustrating that OKW ISG and UKF mortar pit got nerfed but most other indirect fire units remained the same. Now the OKW isg is only useful to counter emplacements and the mortar pit is highly situational and not worth it most of the time. Meanwhile Soviet 120mm mortar still has it´s range and damage, same as USF mortar and WM mortar(which is the most broken mortar, especially vs brits).
Stuka zu Fuss got a well deserved nerf but is still very potent. Same for Calliope. Katjusha wasn´t touched and is still sort of OP. Panzerwerfer feels somewhat balanced to me.
By the way the most effective thing vs MG and mortar spam is the commando glider. Land on their heads and rek them. Obviously this doesnt always work but it comes as a big surprise to most Ost players. Commandos from the glider are still pretty good, 5 men and grenade not on cooldown.
Just imagine COH2 with less indirect fire spam and blob debuffs for infantry. It would be so much more fun.
8 Mar 2018, 16:42 PM
#9
1 Posts: 1276
Well, sov mortar was always terribad, pit got massive nerfs, ISG was brought in line, USF mortar lost quite a bit of range and PACK howi, well, no one even remembers it ever existed so yeah, only wm turbomortar is spreading the mortar cancer.
After bazzilion nerfs it got to every singular stat that isn't model count, its fine.
The OST mortar is broken af b/c of its ROF which practically means it can negate its reduction in accuracy. At least the USF one cant hit shit on auto fire, has limited range, and requires you to use the barrage ability to hit stuff. OST's you just set up and let it go to town.
The amount of wipes those things dish out are crazy
Maybe we give the crews a debuff or reduce their damage but keep the AOE. Its to just hard to move aginst a mortar especially vs OST. You get pummeled into an MG arc that half the time spots for itself and suppress in first volley while turbo mortar hammers down. You move to avoid the OST mortar and end up running into it anyway and lose half your squad or half of its health. Even the USF ROF mortar can be broken b/c of how many shells comes down, you can wipe entire team weapons before the pack up but at least you are limited in range and are ez to push away. Either way its incredibly frustrating to play against. Maybe give the shells a higher air time to reduce how they come down to hit behind a unit if its moving or something....they need something.
Thats my two cents.
8 Mar 2018, 16:50 PM
#10
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
The OST mortar is broken af b/c of its ROF which practically means it can negate its reduction in accuracy. At least the USF one cant hit shit on auto fire, has limited range, and requires you to use the barrage ability to hit stuff. OST's you just set up and let it go to town.
The amount of wipes those things dish out are crazy
The USF and Ost mortars have identical fire rate and accuracy.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
8 Mar 2018, 16:55 PM
#11
Posts: 3260
Personally I'd like to see all indirect weapons reworked to work the same way as howitzers do: remove their basic attack and buff their barrage to compensate.
Mortars should be strong against static defences (both emplacements and camping infantry) but their current direct targeting of infantry squads makes them punish moving squads equally.
Mortars should be strong against static defences (both emplacements and camping infantry) but their current direct targeting of infantry squads makes them punish moving squads equally.
8 Mar 2018, 17:02 PM
#12
Posts: 607
I played a team game (as Sov) and there was one ost player who made 1 MG42 and 5 Mortars as his opening build order. It was in Ettelbruck Station, top right VP.
I wasn't even mad at that point.
Things changed when I rushed katy but for the first few minutes it was a painful game of "never stand still for more than 1 second".
I wasn't even mad at that point.
Things changed when I rushed katy but for the first few minutes it was a painful game of "never stand still for more than 1 second".
8 Mar 2018, 17:09 PM
#13
Posts: 823 | Subs: 3
it's not like brits have an ability for early indirect, costs 40 muni, pretty much forces mortar to react and relocate.
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
8 Mar 2018, 17:21 PM
#14
Posts: 773
it's not like brits have an ability for early indirect, costs 40 muni, pretty much forces mortar to react and relocate.
Ah yeah, let me run forward with my arty flare, drop a big red "I'm barraging here in 10 seconds" and wait for the mortars to relocate before I even fire 1 shot ability every time I somehow manage to get close to a mortar...
Isn't it 45 muni anyway, along with the 30 muni to unlock it, so 75 muni to fire 1 sub par arty piece at something that will move when it sees the huge red smoke cloud and simply set up and continue, its expensive, has a long cool down and is not good at wiping, only saying stay out of this area for 20 seconds or risk getting splashed by mud until I have teched anvil at which point, I have other options.
8 Mar 2018, 17:28 PM
#15
Posts: 2742
Ah yeah, let me run forward with my arty flare, drop a big red "I'm barraging here in 10 seconds" and wait for the mortars to relocate before I even fire 1 shot ability every time I somehow manage to get close to a mortar...
Isn't it 45 muni anyway, along with the 30 muni to unlock it, so 75 muni to fire 1 sub par arty piece at something that will move when it sees the huge red smoke cloud and simply set up and continue, its expensive, has a long cool down and is not good at wiping, only saying stay out of this area for 20 seconds or risk getting splashed by mud until I have teched anvil at which point, I have other options.
True, but remember as an allied faction you're virtually immune to your own artillery. Mortars and nades deal friendly fire, but artillery barely does if you're an allied faction.
Drop that arti and push right in as it makes you nice yellow cover for your advancing infantry. A direct friendly fire artillery shot deals less than a gren bullet.
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8 Mar 2018, 17:31 PM
#16
Posts: 3260
Mortars and nades deal friendly fire, but artillery barely does if you're an allied faction.
Now that's just plain counterintuitive. I can't see the rationale for artillery not hurting its own side if mortars do.
8 Mar 2018, 17:54 PM
#17
Posts: 773
True, but remember as an allied faction you're virtually immune to your own artillery. Mortars and nades deal friendly fire, but artillery barely does if you're an allied faction.
Drop that arti and push right in as it makes you nice yellow cover for your advancing infantry. A direct friendly fire artillery shot deals less than a gren bullet.
Fixed in the patch, friendly fire arty hurts now, even if it didn't, it's an awful solution to a problem of an over performing mortar...
8 Mar 2018, 18:17 PM
#18
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Isn't it 45 muni anyway, along with the 30 muni to unlock it, so 75 muni to fire 1 sub par arty piece
Have you used it much since they buffed it last patch? Arty Flares are actually rather good now - the 1st piece is rather accurate (enough to destroy an OST bunker every time I've found) and the 2nd Howie just adds more shots that scatter more. Very good for area denial and forcing support weapons to move or they will be punished by it. I almost always upgrade at least 1 squad with it (the sight bonus is rather underrated IMO)
8 Mar 2018, 19:22 PM
#19
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Just gonna say when I play brits in 1v1 the only thing that ever holds me back is 2x ISG or 2x mortar. Anything else I'm sealclubbing day in and day out as brits. The ostheer mortar is great, but the ISG is kinda meh. Really the only issue I have with brits is the fact the mortar pit is just a failed design and is essentially crap now. I turn to the landmattress as my last resort after trying to use the 25 pounder howitzers for indirect. The mattress usually gets the job done, the howitzers are basically only good vs AFK opponets and structures. They will crush structures.
8 Mar 2018, 20:02 PM
#20
Posts: 823 | Subs: 3
Ah yeah, let me run forward with my arty flare, drop a big red "I'm barraging here in 10 seconds" and wait for the mortars to relocate before I even fire 1 shot ability every time I somehow manage to get close to a mortar...
Isn't it 45 muni anyway, along with the 30 muni to unlock it, so 75 muni to fire 1 sub par arty piece at something that will move when it sees the huge red smoke cloud and simply set up and continue, its expensive, has a long cool down and is not good at wiping, only saying stay out of this area for 20 seconds or risk getting splashed by mud until I have teched anvil at which point, I have other options.
It's just the first strike of a maneuver. Not the complete solution.
Also a sniper grants it for free. no upgrade needed. Also you can get nades for some Flanking action , once the MG is forced away most of the time a mortar is pretty undefended.
A mortar pit doesn't go down just by mortaring right? you gotta put some extra effort first to force the brace
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
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