Hey i am new to this forum and kind of new to the game? (i played Dawn of war series, made from Relic and has same UI, mechanics and game modes) i have played Men of War assault squad 2 which has some similar aspects.
Now my question is which commander has good artillery capabilities, which has good AT and which one has good support?
BONUS: How do i counter the german l8 game tanks?
Soviet Commander?
22 Feb 2018, 09:47 AM
#1
Posts: 6
25 Feb 2018, 23:01 PM
#2
Posts: 365
Now my question is which commander has good artillery capabilities
This will depend on what you mean by artillery. The Soviet faction has many indirect fire options. Outside of mass wave assaults, indirect fire secondary abilities are the Soviets chief flavor. Rather than focus on the commanders I will focus on the units and abilities since there are a lot of abilities that are present on multiple commanders.
Non-doctrinal units:
Zis 3 Field Gun has a barrage ability that costs 35 munitions and fires 4 shots. It can be devastating if you time it right and its range is limited to the range of the AT rounds.
PM-41 82mm Mortar is a standard indirect fire mortar with average range and a free barrage ability which fires in quick succession on a small area. It has a smoke barrage which allow your infantry to push on a MG without getting suppressed or just give cover to a retreating tank. For 30 Munitions it can also fire a flare which will light up a large portion of the fog of war. Using these last 2 abilities at the right times makes the difference between an average player and a good one. A good tactic is to order a barrage and then SHIFT-Right click to a new spot that way it will relocate after the barrage foiling return fire.
SU-76M has a free barrage ability with range beyond that of the normal AT rounds. It fires 6 shots and is great for taking out MGs inside wood buildings as it will almost always collapse the building at medium range. Think of this as a self propelled artillery piece that can also double as an AT platform. I normally build 2 of these for maximum effect vs grouped units and bunker busting.
BM-13 Katyusha is a dedicated MLRS platform for taking out buildings and large groups of enemy infantry. It fires 16 rockets in 4 salvos. At max range you can expect it to do next to nothing besides tickle or encourage the enemy to retreat. At medium range you have a good chance to wipe and close range it will knock out infantry. It's secondary ability is a creeping barrage which can be good to walk the fire along the retreat path you hope they will take after the first one hits. However it costs 45 munitions so don't do it unless you know you can wipe with it.
Doctrinal Units:
HM-38 120mm Mortar is a monster mortar, massive AOE and longer range, with a trade off of a lower rate of fire and set up time. It does everything the 82mm does. Use it to counter enemy mortars and emplacements. There are 3 commanders with this ability, 2 of which see regular use.
ML-20 152mm Gun-Howitzer is a immobile artillery piece that rains down shells on the other side of the map. It fires eight rounds and at vet 1 fires a ninth Use it to cover assaults, hitting OKW buildings and general harassment of enemy defensive lines. There are 5 commanders with this ability and all of them fill a particular niche so it would be up to you.
B-4 203 Howitzer is a typical soviet era "bigger is better" monstrosity which can be a real hit or miss unit. It fires ONE shell and then you pray to RNGeezus for it to hit something. it can take out Heavy armor in one shot with a direct hit but your mileage will vary. It has a vet 1 ability that allows it to fire a direct shot at a tank provided it is in range. This range is short and the traverse speed of the gun is so low that I can count the number of times I have used it successfully on two hands. It is only available in the Counterattack Tactics commander. If you use it, do so to lob shots at repairing tanks and OKW buildings.
KV-2 Heavy Assault Tank is an odd duck but is one of the most devastating units in the game if handled right. It is armed with an M-10 152mm Howitzer. It's shells were so large they had to be assembled from two parts which explains the long reload time. You can counter this with its alternate ability which after 10 seconds turns it into a turret firing at double the range and almost triple the reload speed at the cost of being immobile, loosing its own generated sight and having a minimum firing distance. This makes it vulnerable to all manner of armored attack so place it behind something like a destroyed building and keep MGs and AT nearby to support it. also mine the approaches to it to further hamper tank rushes on it. At vet 2 it gets increased range and reload time. Once it reaches vet 2 park it so that it can cover multiple VPs as it will have the range to do so on most maps. Only the Soviet Industry Commander has this Commander.
Doctrinal Artillery Abilities:
Fear Propaganda Artillery Acts as a suppressing and pinning artillery barrage that works in a large AOE. It doesn't kill units but it can force them to actually retreat against the will of the opposing player. It usually lasts long enough to move your own troops to counter. Use it on enemy blobs during assaults or to cover your armor. 3 Commanders have this ability.
Incendiary Artillery Barrage fires 3 flame shells that, depending on the RNG spread, can cover a large are or all drop on the same spot. It does initial fire damage and leaves a fire aoe on the ground that will wipe almost any infantry that stay in it for the duration. Use it on MGs in houses, or on AT walls during an armored assault. 4 Commanders have this ability.
which has good AT
I have already mentioned the Zis 3 but there are also Penal Battalions which can get PTRS rifles and a satchel charge that will damage the engine of any tank on the first hit but they have a long wind up time.
Specifically, a commander that offers Guards Rifle Infantry would be the commander you are looking for when it comes to AT duty. Their PTRS rifles are good vs light armor, and will make medium armor at least be wary of sticking around too long. 4 Commanders have them. There is also the Tank Hunter Tactics commander that gives PTRS rifles to conscripts as well as a brutal bombing run that shreds heavy armor and OKW buildings. Alternately you have 2 commanders that give you access to Partisan Tank Hunters. They can enter the battlefield from unoccupied buildings and can cloak. Add to this their Panzerschrecks and they are a glass cannon.
and which one has good support?
If by support you mean supporting teammates you can never go wrong with the IL-2 Sturmovik Attack ability. Specifically the one that loiters. They can pin if not outright wipe squads and the ability lasts forever. They don't grant site however so make sure you use it when you can guarentee you will have vision on at least 50% of the area they will loiter in. 4 commanders have this ability.
When I think of supporting in a team game I usually go with commanders that will allow me to not bleed manpower so that I can build supply caches with the surplus MP. I also like to use commanders that give recon and have indirect fire options.
BONUS: How do i counter the german l8 game tanks?
Countering late game German armor in 1v1 and 2v2 is possible though your best bet is to never let them hit late game. SU-76 can barrage enemy positions and if they survive to late game will easily be vet 3. 2 SU-76 at vet 3 can fight off a panther due to the increased mobility and penetration. DO NOT go chasing into the unknown to finish something off with a T-34. They work best as a duo or better yet trio. I have watched so many games end in a Soviet loss because the Sov player was wasting his T-34s before he reached critical mass. That said, don't be afraid to rush enemy tanks with ground support and if you need to use the T-34 ram ability to seal it's fate. Use IL-2s to suppress the infantry while you assault the tank.
Once again I wrote a novel but it is all worth reading if you are new to the game. Remember you can search for these abilities in the loadout screen
26 Feb 2018, 00:31 AM
#3
1
Posts: 2885
Captain QQ covered most of it, but I will add the things he forgot to add.
As for artillery: Apart from ML-20 and KV2, the game also features ISU-152 when it comes to 152mm artillery guns. The unit is available from about 2 commanders and it is very good at killing soft targets at long range - namely squad wiping. Do not use it in large team games though as it's efficiency is very low if opponents have access to heavy tank destroyers like elefant or jagdtiger.
As for AT: Apart from already mentioned zis guns and su-76 assault guns, soviets also have non doctrinal su-85 which is the best soviets have when it comes to dealing with heavies. Using commanders you can also choose to use T34-85s or IS-2s as your AT. You can also just flank with a horde of T34-76es. Don't forget to tech AT granades for your conscripts, they help a lot by slowing enemy tanks. Some commanders also have IL-2 plane abilites that help with tanks. These are:
1. Mark target - increases damage taken by chosen tank by, I think, 33% and gives sight with a recon plane flying over it. It is available in many commanders, often the meta ones.
2. AT bomb strike is an ability available only in AT commander (the one with conscript PTRS). The bombing strike comes quickly and can deal even with more than one tank if they are close to each other.
3. IL-2 bomb strike - another bomb strike available in multiple commanders. It takes time to arrive so it is good against tanks only if you use lots of slowing abilities or crits. But it can be used that way. It is also good against okw forward bases.
Btw, there is a fun fact about the mentioned propaganda artillery. It can retreat all the infantry squads and weapon teams, even the ones that can't be normally ordered to retreat by their owner like for example AT guns. Vehicles are immune to that ability.
As for artillery: Apart from ML-20 and KV2, the game also features ISU-152 when it comes to 152mm artillery guns. The unit is available from about 2 commanders and it is very good at killing soft targets at long range - namely squad wiping. Do not use it in large team games though as it's efficiency is very low if opponents have access to heavy tank destroyers like elefant or jagdtiger.
As for AT: Apart from already mentioned zis guns and su-76 assault guns, soviets also have non doctrinal su-85 which is the best soviets have when it comes to dealing with heavies. Using commanders you can also choose to use T34-85s or IS-2s as your AT. You can also just flank with a horde of T34-76es. Don't forget to tech AT granades for your conscripts, they help a lot by slowing enemy tanks. Some commanders also have IL-2 plane abilites that help with tanks. These are:
1. Mark target - increases damage taken by chosen tank by, I think, 33% and gives sight with a recon plane flying over it. It is available in many commanders, often the meta ones.
2. AT bomb strike is an ability available only in AT commander (the one with conscript PTRS). The bombing strike comes quickly and can deal even with more than one tank if they are close to each other.
3. IL-2 bomb strike - another bomb strike available in multiple commanders. It takes time to arrive so it is good against tanks only if you use lots of slowing abilities or crits. But it can be used that way. It is also good against okw forward bases.
Btw, there is a fun fact about the mentioned propaganda artillery. It can retreat all the infantry squads and weapon teams, even the ones that can't be normally ordered to retreat by their owner like for example AT guns. Vehicles are immune to that ability.
27 Feb 2018, 05:32 AM
#4
Posts: 365
Thanks for covering the rest ferwiner. I phoned in the rest of the info when I realized I had spent over an hour being a fanboy about soviet indirect fire options.
Another think to remember is that when you are calling in bombing runs, unless your target is static or you absolutely need the bombs to fall a specific way, order the strike to start on from the side of the map you are closest to. This way the time to target is shorter and your opponent has less time to react. Also you can use this so that the plane can avoid any AA it would otherwise fly over. Remember that the OKW building with the big flak gun on it has to be told to fire at air targets manually and cant fire at ground targets for at least 30 seconds after. You can sometimes bait a player to set the flak building to AA mode then run in with penals to throw satchel charges at it.
Another think to remember is that when you are calling in bombing runs, unless your target is static or you absolutely need the bombs to fall a specific way, order the strike to start on from the side of the map you are closest to. This way the time to target is shorter and your opponent has less time to react. Also you can use this so that the plane can avoid any AA it would otherwise fly over. Remember that the OKW building with the big flak gun on it has to be told to fire at air targets manually and cant fire at ground targets for at least 30 seconds after. You can sometimes bait a player to set the flak building to AA mode then run in with penals to throw satchel charges at it.
27 Feb 2018, 11:29 AM
#5
Posts: 6
Captain QQ covered most of it, but I will add the things he forgot to add.
As for artillery: Apart from ML-20 and KV2, the game also features ISU-152 when it comes to 152mm artillery guns. The unit is available from about 2 commanders and it is very good at killing soft targets at long range - namely squad wiping. Do not use it in large team games though as it's efficiency is very low if opponents have access to heavy tank destroyers like elefant or jagdtiger.
As for AT: Apart from already mentioned zis guns and su-76 assault guns, soviets also have non doctrinal su-85 which is the best soviets have when it comes to dealing with heavies. Using commanders you can also choose to use T34-85s or IS-2s as your AT. You can also just flank with a horde of T34-76es. Don't forget to tech AT granades for your conscripts, they help a lot by slowing enemy tanks. Some commanders also have IL-2 plane abilites that help with tanks. These are:
1. Mark target - increases damage taken by chosen tank by, I think, 33% and gives sight with a recon plane flying over it. It is available in many commanders, often the meta ones.
2. AT bomb strike is an ability available only in AT commander (the one with conscript PTRS). The bombing strike comes quickly and can deal even with more than one tank if they are close to each other.
3. IL-2 bomb strike - another bomb strike available in multiple commanders. It takes time to arrive so it is good against tanks only if you use lots of slowing abilities or crits. But it can be used that way. It is also good against okw forward bases.
Btw, there is a fun fact about the mentioned propaganda artillery. It can retreat all the infantry squads and weapon teams, even the ones that can't be normally ordered to retreat by their owner like for example AT guns. Vehicles are immune to that ability.
thanks that was a tip i will bare in mind
14 May 2018, 13:46 PM
#6
Posts: 117
You're new, just make 5 conscripts and go for the conscript weapon upgrade.
If you wanna deviate from that you absolutely have to go for elite infantry or be a god of light vehicle micro (T-70)
If you wanna deviate from that you absolutely have to go for elite infantry or be a god of light vehicle micro (T-70)
6 Jul 2018, 21:56 PM
#7
Posts: 7
The best commander is guard motor coordination. Mark target and guards, combined with t-34/85 gives plenty of AT. Mortar call-in also is great artillery. Mark target and mortar are also both great for supporting allies. Vehicle crew repair is great for getting your tanks back into the fight, especially t-70s. This gives you a good mix of everything your asking for, and should definitely be on your commander roster as soviets.
Mechanized support is another very strong pick for at. Everything in that doctrine is great against tanks, and the isu-152 can also do decent damage against infantry.
For arty, soviet combined arms is great. Ambush for at guns and guards are both great, but recon+bomb strike is very powerful, and the ml-20 can be powerful stationary artillery. This also gives it great support abilities, because any emplacements throughout the entire lategame cannot be built, whether 1v1 or 4v4 as they will be recon and then lethally bombed.
Mechanized support is another very strong pick for at. Everything in that doctrine is great against tanks, and the isu-152 can also do decent damage against infantry.
For arty, soviet combined arms is great. Ambush for at guns and guards are both great, but recon+bomb strike is very powerful, and the ml-20 can be powerful stationary artillery. This also gives it great support abilities, because any emplacements throughout the entire lategame cannot be built, whether 1v1 or 4v4 as they will be recon and then lethally bombed.
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