MG42 arc

As a big proponent of the MG42 gameplay in COH 1 I find it a bit overpowered in COH 2. The arc is quite massive and now it's visible at all times (when you click on it) gives MG users a great advantage.

Suggestions:

1. Arc Reduction
2. Do not allow Soviet players to view arc when clicked on

Edit:

Another problem is that the MG42 crew sight is as long as its range. I feel like this allows MG42s to be used extremely aggressive and is a partial reason that allows MG42 to act alone. In COH 1 the MG42 LOS/weapon range was different and this promoted the usage of the bike to scout --> promoted using unit combination/synergy.

Id personally be happy if the mg42 didn't automatically target the closest enemy squad but concentrated it's fire on it's original target until manually told to do so like in coh1. That combined with the length it takes for pinned squads to get back up after the mg42 stops firing is what I think makes the mg42 beastly for its cost but than again in essence it's exactly what it's supposed to be doing.

I think a sight range reduction to both machine gun teams would be a really good idea actually and something that should have been done since day 1.

Agree the arc and range of mg is pretty big. Add that to bunker building , 10% suppression bulletin and shitty conscript damage and it is pretty much ''op''.

Agree the arc and range of mg is pretty big. Add that to bunker building , 10% suppression bulletin and shitty conscript damage and it is pretty much ''op''.

np if you want to reduce the arc, give MG42 the same setup and packup time as the maxim as well as the same DPS.

I hope you guys realize the reason why MG42 has such a wide arc is to compensate for its long setup and pack time as well as its low dps.

Also I will throw around a word a lot of soviet players love using when discussing the su85 ... FLANK. At least an MG42 cant warp speed reverse from flanking attacks.

MG42 is fine however what is the problem is suppression time after MG stops firing at you.
Currently if you ambush MG with 2-3 squads with gaps between them but from the same direction (aka in arc) mg can insta (with bulletin) suppress all of them and even after a while when the MG is not shooting at you, you are still suppressed so the only option is to retreat.

Mg42 only needs to be punished more when flanked (by increasing base dmg of infantry i guess) other than that no1 find problem with mg42 but now you guys come in with some apsurd proposals, use the god damn mortar to take out mg42 ... you can fire it from base ffs -.-

Is it me, or do units stay pinned for a lot longer than they did in COH1? It seems that pinned units will stay like that for tens of seconds after the threat is gone. I think reducing that time would give more flexibility for basic infantry on both sides when responding to machine guns, which currently play such a dominant role. Applying a capping speed penalty to both machine guns would also be a good idea in my opinion.

Also, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the machine guns being fundamentally different. I like the idea of a tradeoff of arc + suppression for maneuverability + damage. However, the maxim doesn't actually seem to do more damage. Given their other differences, I would expect the maxim to do about 40-50% more damage than the MG42 (or somewhere in that ballpark), but the DPS difference actually appears negligible. In fact, the MG42 has slightly higher DPS at mid-range. You can check the stats here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc#gid=0
In my opinion, they should revert the damage nerf on the maxim. I think the other changes (e.g. no firing when suppressed, longer setup time) fixed the problems that led to maxim spam, and the damage was never the problem in the first place.

Mg42 only needs to be punished more when flanked (by increasing base dmg of infantry i guess) other than that no1 find problem with mg42 but now you guys come in with some apsurd proposals, use the god damn mortar to take out mg42 ... you can fire it from base ffs -.-

Pretty much this. In my experience as long as you're not on Pripryet or Minsk 42s can quite effectively be flanked with conscripts but only if you manage to get a molotov off.

As MadrRasha suggested, I've taken to mortaring them. I've also had some luck dropping smoke on the MG to allow my troops to approach. MGs still don't do well against flamer Engis or Molotovs IMHO

Save for the fact that MG teams can still fight while capping a point and they have more members than in vCoH, I'm somewhat puzzled by the complaints about their effectiveness, as the differences between the two mirror the differences between the MG-42 and the Browning HMG in vCoH (one had faster suppression and pinning, the other had better range and killing power).

The arc is goofy big and MGs suppress way too fast. That combined with the increased squad size makes flanking extremely difficult against good players.

If they suppressed any slower, or the arc was narrower, theyd be useless vs Oorah Cons.

You need 2 units to flank. One drawing fire, and the other performing the flank.

Regardless of this, M3 with anything inside it, counters it as well.

As to the squad size, it is still less durable than Maxims, because the MG crews have 1 armor, so it survives the same as a 4man Maxim crew. Concretely, MG42 has 3/4 the survival of a Maxim.

I would like to point out that the DPS diffrence between the 2 is not -that- big, you notice it more as the HMG42 gets reduced damage when they get supressed (about .5 secounds after shooting) and again when they get pinned ( 3 or 4 secounds after that (no bullitin)) whereas the maxim does its full damage for a longer period of time before supressing the enemy squad. (though its true dps is higher)

- there needs to be some kind of penalty when switching targets.
- MG42 crew LOS needs some tweaks (in fact, all units LOS needs to be relooked at again)
- MG team needs to be very weak against Near attacks. (So it rewards flanked)

I hope not all 3 above gets patched in one go, but a step at time to see the effects

Save for the fact that MG teams can still fight while capping a point and they have more members than in vCoH, I'm somewhat puzzled by the complaints about their effectiveness, as the differences between the two mirror the differences between the MG-42 and the Browning HMG in vCoH (one had faster suppression and pinning, the other had better range and killing power).

yes but the browning had a good firing arc!

I'd rather get rid of its ability to auto-target a second squad even when not ordered. This is such a braindead idea, it allows even noobs to use their MGs effectively thanks to the massive arc. Increasing rifle damage at close range so that flanking is actually viable would be great too; nothing like getting behind an MG, seeing it pack and stroll around until grens arrive and the conscripts are forced to retreat, and the MG squad lost 1-2 men to 10 seconds of sustained fire. They're way too easy to use atm.

Yeah, a reversion of the old Maxim dmg would make it more usefull, espeacially in the light of the recent changes to MG vs. MG combat

Also, perhaps a 'received damage modifier' for MG42 crew; receiving more damage, making flanking it more 'less shitty'

Maxim could use a bit of an arc increase. not major but a decent one

I got the impression you guys just want change even if its apsurd or not needed... just need things to change cuz u cant overcome a unit few games and suddenly finding problems where there isnt one...
I cant say for sure but u guys dont seem like veterans (neither am I) and such proposals from people who hardly know what needs to be changed (SU-85? IS-2? Tiger? etc.) are quite ridiculous
Again repeating there isnt a single problem with maxim or mg ... they are balanced great atm but game needs some other work like flanking and cutting enemy territory to be more punishing for players and relic said they are working on it so can we please leave this discussion that isnt going to get anywhere
For change try participating in posts that will probably have impact and result (doctrine unit wishlist my favorite atm example. much needed fallschirmjagers or/and stormtroopers) where relic can hear our voice
Cheers

I got the impression you guys just want change even if its apsurd or not needed... just need things to change cuz u cant overcome a unit few games and suddenly finding problems where there isnt one...
I cant say for sure but u guys dont seem like veterans (neither am I) and such proposals from people who hardly know what needs to be changed (SU-85? IS-2? Tiger? etc.) are quite ridiculous
Again repeating there isnt a single problem with maxim or mg ... they are balanced great atm but game needs some other work like flanking and cutting enemy territory to be more punishing for players and relic said they are working on it so can we please leave this discussion that isnt going to get anywhere
For change try participating in posts that will probably have impact and result (doctrine unit wishlist my favorite atm example. much needed fallschirmjagers or/and stormtroopers) where relic can hear our voice
Cheers

What he said. Problem seems to be between chair n keyboard.