December Balance Preview

I dont understand the Leig buff in 1.8. other than that good changes.

LUL Waht i can say, ostheer in generally was most balanced faction, coz there wasnot so abuse strats like another factions have. So you whana just make ostheer more abuse ? Like OKW ? Like brits ?
Waht problem with late game ? Thay fix models for ostheer.
251 with flamer counter penals, maxims, even rifles, 221 counter m20, m3 waht he problem ? You whanna luchs in t2 ?

really?

oh..maybe ost is well balance, because not Op..but its very weak comparded to other faction.

So:
bring down other faction to the ost level...
or make ost better.

to say ost is not op and well balanced...but other faction are op and not balance... doesnt make it better....only for the OP faction---yes.

flamer HT is hardcounter? in which world do u play?
nearly every allie infantery has handheld AT or make good dmg vs the thin armor from the HT..

u need to repair it every time cause of smarl arm dmg and low HP

really?

oh..maybe ost is well balance, because not Op..but its very weak comparded to other faction.

So:
bring down other faction to the ost level...
or make ost better.

to say ost is not op and well balanced...but other faction are op and not balance... doesnt make it better....only for the OP faction---yes.

flamer HT is hardcounter? in which world do u play?
nearly every allie infantery has handheld AT or make good dmg vs the thin armor from the HT..

u need to repair it every time cause of smarl arm dmg and low HP

So you whanna make ostheer OP and ignore problems of another factions, yes ? Its logic of fanboy. Soviet are OP ? USA are OP ? or Soviet penals are OP ? or USA 2 bar rifles with nades are OP ?
How many AT allies infatry will be have in early game and why you cannot atack another targets taht dont have AT ?
You make so many demagogia.

So far we have learned that the Panther is worse durability wise compared to the E8 and that the cheap and buffed Leig at 270 is justified because of muh 6 man crew Pack Howitzer at 380mp.

And these people cry all day that others are biased, give me a break.

It's not that hard, let's do math
4 ez8: 720x4=2880 hitpoints
3 panthers: 800x3=2400 hitpoints

Howie doesn't cost more because of 6 men, it costs more because is on top of arty food chain, it outrage EVERYTHING and has the best aoe/building killing potential on top of non standard barrages for utility.

Now, I know teamgamers and memers would like ez8 to get jackson pen, sherman he, panther durability and be better than anything at everything..butit already fullfill with high pen at for anything but king tiger and ai against anything.
There's no tactical thinking, you always want one more of it, and you can simply spam it as the most cost efficient all around killing machine.

"A bit better" than panzer 4 is laughable.

So you whanna make ostheer OP and ignore problems of another factions, yes ? Its logic of fanboy. Soviet are OP ? USA are OP ? or Soviet penals are OP ? or USA 2 bar rifles with nades are OP ?
How many AT allies infatry will be have in early game and why you cannot atack another targets taht dont have AT ?
You make so many demagogia.

i dont know hwat you read...but i didn wrote anything like do you said here.

i said: ost is to weak compared to other faction

result: make other faction weaker...or make ost better.

It doesnt, its barely faster at 4.1 t0 4.3 compare to the P4 thats 5.1 to 5.3.

Vet 0 panzer 4 reload:5.63
Vet 0 76mm reload:4.43

Vet 3 panzer 4 reload:3.94
Vet 3 76mm reload:2.21

Such fire rate make the sherman capabke of a really powerful dps output.

Now please stop spreading misinformation, this thread is for feedback.

i dont know hwat you read...but i didn wrote anything like do you said here.

i said: ost is to weak compared to other faction

result: make other faction weaker...or make ost better.

If you buff ostheer , you will be must buff soviet czo thay are like twins.

If you buff ostheer , you will be must buff soviet czo thay are like twins.

what the hell are you talking? Sovjets is meta faction

- sov has 6model elite squads
- has at gun with arti modus
- cheap but effective tanks (su76/ t34) which are really spamable and good vs all targets
- very good (rocket) arti and call ins
- heavy tank call ins
- end game TD (non doc)

and is easy cheesy playable...while ost need to break both hands and legs to deal with other faction

what the hell are you talking? Sovjets is meta faction

- sov has 6model elite squads
- has at gun with arti modus
- cheap but effective tanks (su76/ t34) which are really spamable and good vs all targets
- very good (rocket) arti and call ins
- heavy tank call ins
- end game TD (non doc)

and is easy cheesy playable...while ost need to break both hands and legs to deal with other faction

How i like this storys, soviet have 6 models and what ? waht accuracy of this 6 models compared to 4 ? Maybe you whanna say that cons are cheaper then grens ?
So lets write same list about ostheer.

- have at gun with stun
- cheap TD (stug), best vet in medium tanks
- good callins and best AI unit in tiers (brumbar)
- so many AI and AT abilitys in doc
- same best combine army liek soviet have
- OP meta docs, that counter soviet meta docs.

Staph changing hotkeys NotLikeThis

Soviets have been already buffed. Multiple times. OST however retains the same issues for years.

Lack of effective light vehicles - the 222 is rather slow, it has little damage potential and lacks resilience even against small arms. If its supposed to be a counter for lightest vehicles but loose to most other light vehicles, at least make it fast to give a chance to maneuver and escape.

The base 251 is next to useless - its made out of wet paper (unlike all other Halftrucks), it has useless abilities, meh DPS. Its only good with the flame halftruck upgrade in small window, but apart from that, the base version has very little viability. At the very least its armor should be on par with other halftrucks, and some useful abilities wouldn't hurt either - like AP rounds, light suppression as in COH 1, or some sort of aura, boosting of infantry ability cooldown etc.

Lack of viable infantry for late game where their support weapons have much less of a window due to cover everywhere and saturation fire from rocket arty. Grens just don't cut it, they do not have the abilities and they basically loose against every other infantry while still being a heavy manpower bleed. Grens would need something to remain useful and competitive, like light suppression muni ability, ability to build sandbags instead of bunkers, or some buff when researching BF3. They could remain less wipeable for example if BF3 would give them a Squad Leader (Veteran Sergant) instead of one of the Gren models with some light armor, so at least one of the Squad members could survive the engagements and retreat. Or some sort of more elite infantry in tier IV, like a non-doctrinal version of Stormtroopers (here's an idea - basic version based on the doctrinal one with one Stg + 3 Gren Kar98s, plus an upgrade option for either a single Panzerschreck OR an LMG 43, simple Model 24 Grenade and smoke grenade. Or a combination of it.

OST infantry situation could be also vastly improved by simply freeing up Pioneers who do nothing but repairing tanks in all mid-late game. Give them an unlock of a repair station upgrade to Tier III building after researching BF3.

Now, Tier IV. The Panther is simply lackluster, meaning that the meta still remains Tier III and Tiger as at least this combination performs. Veterancy could be adjusted that the Panther receives range bonuses instead of armor, so at least OST would have a 60 range tank destroyer too. Leave the DPS as it is (adjust RoF) but with 200 damage alpha damage, and more consistent hitting of targets with a 0.65 moving accuracy like OKW Panther.

what the hell are you talking? Sovjets is meta faction

- sov has 6model elite squads
- has at gun with arti modus
- cheap but effective tanks (su76/ t34) which are really spamable and good vs all targets
- very good (rocket) arti and call ins
- heavy tank call ins
- end game TD (non doc)

and is easy cheesy playable...while ost need to break both hands and legs to deal with other faction

You are totally not biased. Totally.

Storm Doctrine got Tactical Movements back but ...
it have so many munitions abilities (all of them is situational yes).

In 1.8 we have 2 choice of infantry sprint;single units sprint and global one (Tactical movement also affect HMG and mortar I think)

IMO better add munition free ability.
SU got KV-1, why Osteer Storm doctrine doesn't get any call-in ability?
Any infantry, light or medium vehicles call in etc.

How i like this storys, soviet have 6 models and what ? waht accuracy of this 6 models compared to 4 ? Maybe you whanna say that cons are cheaper then grens ?
So lets write same list about ostheer.

- have at gun with stun
- cheap TD (stug), best vet in medium tanks
- good callins and best AI unit in tiers (brumbar)
- so many AI and AT abilitys in doc
- same best combine army liek soviet have
- OP meta docs, that counter soviet meta docs.

if you dont know the advantage of a 6 model squad...i dont know..maybe learn basics?

- ever tried to recrew a wepoan?
- get an arty strike?
- and cons (t0) with ppsh are much stronger than grens (t1)

and so on..

It's not that hard, let's do math
4 ez8: 720x4=2880 hitpoints
3 panthers: 800x3=2400 hitpoints

Howie doesn't cost more because of 6 men, it costs more because is on top of arty food chain, it outrage EVERYTHING and has the best aoe/building killing potential on top of non standard barrages for utility.

Now, I know teamgamers and memers would like ez8 to get jackson pen, sherman he, panther durability and be better than anything at everything..butit already fullfill with high pen at for anything but king tiger and ai against anything.
There's no tactical thinking, you always want one more of it, and you can simply spam it as the most cost efficient all around killing machine.

"A bit better" than panzer 4 is laughable.

You keep forgetting that the great armor value of the Panther will inflate its potential HP when deflecting shots, armor and hp are tied together as durability.

It is a bit batter than a Panzer 4 at a higher price (plus being tied to a commander), still dont see your problem.

E8 has 35 more armor and 80 more HP than an OST P4, 50 more pen after the P4 buff.

All you are doing is getting upset by words like "a bit" and "slightly", which doesnt lead anywhere. Those tanks are fine as they are (P4 buff was deserved, thats why i want a slight 76mm sherman buff because its in the shadow now.)

Vet 0 panzer 4 reload:5.63
Vet 0 76mm reload:4.43

Vet 3 panzer 4 reload:3.94
Vet 3 76mm reload:2.21

Such fire rate make the sherman capabke of a really powerful dps output.

Now please stop spreading misinformation, this thread is for feedback.

I havent spread any missinformation, the rate of fire difference at vet 0 is not very big.

And the P4 has other bonuses from its VET, its called asymetrical balance which is what the game is based on.

The rate of fire argument after vet really has no point, all tanks get vet benefits.

[code][/code]~ 2 secs reloads are absurd on any tank. Even the StuG doesn't get such with veterancy, and that's an AT only gun, not a dual purpose one as on the LL/E8 Sherman.

Having it for roughly the same fuel price as the Pz IV is what makes it even more absurd, but hey, I guess its only Axis tanks that could over perform for their cost.

Turbo firing tank guns are just bad for gameplay in general since its a massive incentive to just hoard some tanks and roam the map with them Starcraft style with next to no tactical play involved. It simply builds on the fact that the roaming horde can simply out DPS and f*ck up things faster than the opponent can even react. This applies to E8/LL Sherman and to a lesser extent, StuG / SU76 spam as the latter at least have to face their targets and cannot just do drive-by shootings.

[code][/code]~ 2 secs reloads are absurd on any tank. Even the StuG doesn't get such with veterancy, and that's an AT only gun, not a dual purpose one as on the LL/E8 Sherman.

Having it for roughly the same fuel price as the Pz IV is what makes it even more absurd, but hey, I guess its only Axis tanks that could over perform for their cost.

Turbo firing tank guns are just bad for gameplay in general since its a massive incentive to just hoard some tanks and roam the map with them Starcraft style with next to nade tactical play involved.

And the Ost P4 gets 30% additional armor at Vet 2 which the Sherman doesnt, you should see how much the new M4A3 76 bounces even on a vet 0 P4.

Sherman gets just more ROF, P4 gets more ROF and Armor judging only by combat relevant parameters.

Still dont see your problems.

Dont agree that fast firing guns are bad for gameplay if the gun in question is higly medicore by itself.

If it would tear through armor like a Panther it would be a problem, but it doesnt.

If it would tear through infantry like a T-34 85 or a tiger it would be a problem, but it doesnt.

If its meh at everything (which it is), i dont see it as a problem.

It simply builds on the fact that the roaming horde can simply out DPS and f*ck up things faster than the opponent can even react. This applies to E8/LL Sherman and to a lesser extent, StuG / SU76 spam as the latter at least have to face their targets and cannot just do drive-by shootings.

You are talking about things that never happen, i dont think a Vet 3 E8/LL Sherman blob has ever existed, and thus they cant just "out dps" everything as a horde because such hordes dont exist.

And even if it would happen the enemy places a single panther infront of them and the LL Shermans bounce like crazy because the Panther hard counters them.

Right. Lend Lease meta doesn't happen. Decrew E8 meta doesn't happen.