Faction Fuel Balancing

The one that died to everything and missed like crazy?

oh yeah, I remember losing countless games because that piece of shit underperformed so badly...

you had to be really bad to get rekt by old t70

To anyone reading this, same drill as always:
Stop replying to him, ignore the troll, and move on.

AoE means shit when acc and rof are so low. Which you conveniently didn't mention...

T-70 has low ROF?? seriously? with 2.43 reload is one of the faster ballistic guns with AOE.

All guns that uses AOE as the main source of damage have low Accuracy.

PLS learn the difference between weapons that use hits (accuracy) to do damage and weapons that use AOE to do damage, before continuing this.

If in your opinion T-70 does not enough damage to infantry pls explain why so.

To anyone reading this, same drill as always:
Stop replying to him, ignore the troll, and move on.

^^

T-70 has low ROF?? seriously? with 2.43 reload is one of the faster ballistic guns with AOE.

All guns that uses AOE as the main source of damage have low Accuracy.

PLS learn the difference between weapons that use hits (accuracy) to do damage and weapons that use AOE to do damage, before continuing this.

If in your opinion T-70 does not enough damage to infantry pls explain why so.

Side note though. Topic is off the rails. Can we get back on something about fuel balance

T-70 has low ROF?? seriously? with 2.43 reload is one of the faster ballistic guns with AOE.

All guns that uses AOE as the main source of damage have low Accuracy.

PLS learn the difference between weapons that use hits (accuracy) to do damage and weapons that use AOE to do damage, before continuing this.

If in your opinion T-70 does not enough damage to infantry pls explain why so.

Because: (insert made up reason that doesnt reflect the actual way the game is and works)

Seriously though, replying to trolls with actual arguments is a waste of any effort that you could instead be using towards an actual meaningful discussion on the actual purpose of this thread.

On fuel "discrepancies" check how low cost the AEC has.

These "discrepancies" hardly create imbalance.

The main current balance issue come from the "discrepancies" in the mainline infantry and "discrepancies" in the call in units.

To attempt to bring the discussion back on track: To the OP of this thread, the main explanation that people have for the fuel discrepancy between the t70 and the luchs (or between any 2 vehicles in any two factions) is that theyre two fairly different vehicles, operating in two different factions, facing two different sets of units. This means that comparing the two on any single level leads to extremely skewed results. Coh2 is actually really complicated with an absurd amount of factors to consider, so only using one factor (or a few of them) doesnt give nearly enough context for why things are the way they are.

To attempt to bring the discussion back on track: To the OP of this thread, the main explanation that people have for the fuel discrepancy between the t70 and the luchs (or between any 2 vehicles in any two factions) is that theyre two fairly different vehicles, operating in two different factions, facing two different sets of units.

To complete your post: And the one which arrives later HARDCOUNTERS the one which comes sooner. Comparing luchs and t70 based on time of arrival is like comparing an USF sherman with OKW armored panzer 4 based on their arrival time

Read, understand, reply...

Luch uses accuracy its AOE is 1 with 0.1/0.6 multiplier and 16 damage.
T-70 uses AOE its AOE is 1.75 0.15/0.8 multiplier and 40 damage.

T-70 does more damage at 1.75 than Luch does at 0.25.

PLS:
"Stop spreading missinformation and bullshitting."

Also it has a pritty low scatter of 2.5, which means that most of the time it's hitting inf models and doing huge damage. Also it's wipe potential is better thru running retreating into down and one shorting bunched up squads

AoE means shit when acc and rof are so low. Which you conveniently didn't mention...

He didn't because the t70s rof and accuracy isn't low, doubly so with its vet bonuses to reload and scatter

He didn't because the t70s rof and accuracy isn't low, doubly so with its vet bonuses to reload and scatter

at vet 3 he is okay, but good luck reaching that against long range fausts, invisible ATs, mines, shreks and all other shennanigans, on top of that 90% of the shots hits either the ground or cover or completely miss, even at short range, and unlike luchs, t70 deals virtually no damage against houses or heavy cover.

Not to mention that T70 can't face luchs or 222, the TTK is just too long.

Zerocoh troll confirmed XD

"LOL HE DOESN'T KEEP REPEATING THE BULLSHIT THAT THE COMMUNITY MAKES UP SO HE MUST BE A TROLL XDDDDD" 10/10 post m8

To attempt to bring the discussion back on track: To the OP of this thread, the main explanation that people have for the fuel discrepancy between the t70 and the luchs (or between any 2 vehicles in any two factions) is that theyre two fairly different vehicles, operating in two different factions, facing two different sets of units. This means that comparing the two on any single level leads to extremely skewed results. Coh2 is actually really complicated with an absurd amount of factors to consider, so only using one factor (or a few of them) doesnt give nearly enough context for why things are the way they are.

Thank you for your reply, I'm surprised how fast things can escalate when people mixing up facts with personal experiences and emotions.

I totaly agree on the terms you named: It's complicated and there are many factors, correlations etc. to consider. But I wonder: What are the main-factors you would name to debate a topic like "fuel balancing"? Imho, timing, fuel cost and tech-requirements felt okay, but I still think - as you marked by your post - there are maybe others we need to take into account there. I'm very interested, which else you or others would consider critical for this issue.

Hi WhatSadFace.

I don't want be rude towards you but I think that this is a learn to play issue. Currently Soviets are one of strongest faction and the disatvantage of having a light tank with slowest arrival time is easily mitigated by 2 factors - having the best main line infantry - penals - and having the earliest show unit - clown car (m3 with engineers put inside).

Another fact is that T70 hardcounters both luchs and 222 while still being very good against all infantry squads.

I think there is no point in buffing (balancing) Soviet light tanks t70 arrival time. At least not until penals, dushka and lend lease sherman are balanced.

If you continulously have problems with Soviets I recommend you visit State Office and post a replay in Replay Reviews thread. There are many good community members which are eager to spot your mistakes and help you to improve in your play

Hi Hector,

no problem. I would never consider myself to be a very good soviet player... definitively not. I watch my replays very often and there is soo much that needs to be done: Micro, Map-Awareness, etc. And I'm not saying, this needs to be fixed. I started this thread to hear what kind of arguments there are to justify that discrepancy. So actually, I'm looking - with you guys - for valid categories and indicators that can be used to underline that. And so far, I have read a few: Multi-useability of the T-70 (Scout, Recon, Cap), that translates better into the late-game. The need for a fast and powerful counter to the penal-meta.
I totaly see these points. I would love to hear your reply to my other post, about the indicators or factors that can be used, to analyse such an issue as here at hand. Maybe these can make your point more obvious to me and other (and maybe even some trolls, who knows? )

Hi Hector,

no problem. I would never consider myself to be a very good soviet player... definitively not. I watch my replays very often and there is soo much that needs to be done: Micro, Map-Awareness, etc. And I'm not saying, this needs to be fixed. I started this thread to hear what kind of arguments there are to justify that discrepancy. So actually, I'm looking - with you guys - for valid categories and indicators that can be used to underline that. And so far, I have read a few: Multi-useability of the T-70 (Scout, Recon, Cap), that translates better into the late-game. The need for a fast and powerful counter to the penal-meta.
I totaly see these points. I would love to hear your reply to my other post, about the indicators or factors that can be used, to analyse such an issue as here at hand. Maybe these can make your point more obvious to me and other (and maybe even some trolls, who knows? )

The main thing to keep in mind is that soviets and ostheer were designed without usf, okw, or brits on mind.

Okw was overhauled just prior to release, resdesigned afterwards, and then given to a couple community members that chose to implement a gambit of changes that did not account for overall faction design.

Trying to understand the reasoning behind just about anything to do with OKW is a fools errand, imo.

Soviets made sense against ostheer for the longest time. But ostheer had to get changed because of USF, which created a need to change soviets... and so on.

Where we are at today is midway through a more or less aborted attempt to overhaul the game.

To complete your post: And the one which arrives later HARDCOUNTERS the one which comes sooner. Comparing luchs and t70 based on time of arrival is like comparing an USF sherman with OKW armored panzer 4 based on their arrival time

Or comparing USF M15 and Luch based on their arrival time and... oh wait!
Or comparing Sov M15 and Luch based on their arrival time and... oh wait again!

Hi Hector,

no problem. I would never consider myself to be a very good soviet player... definitively not. I watch my replays very often and there is soo much that needs to be done: Micro, Map-Awareness, etc. And I'm not saying, this needs to be fixed. I started this thread to hear what kind of arguments there are to justify that discrepancy. So actually, I'm looking - with you guys - for valid categories and indicators that can be used to underline that. And so far, I have read a few: Multi-useability of the T-70 (Scout, Recon, Cap), that translates better into the late-game. The need for a fast and powerful counter to the penal-meta.
I totaly see these points. I would love to hear your reply to my other post, about the indicators or factors that can be used, to analyse such an issue as here at hand. Maybe these can make your point more obvious to me and other (and maybe even some trolls, who knows? )

Hey,

as you have already stated you do not consider yourself a very good player. Maybe it will be wiser to stick to state office and ask for help when you are stuck with some replay (often different viewers see different problems, you might not be even aware of some common mistakes you make) instead of creating a balance threads. Because trolls often make fun out of newer players because they are an easier targer.

Currently I do not see a big point in balance threads at all because game patching was freezed some time ago and there is no official statement that there will be new patch soon. Once another patch will be coming it will make sence to start discussing balance reasons.

Right now balance threads mostly bring fanboys and trolls together, creating an utter mess. You can see it yourself how fast this thread is going down and is being derailed.


I do not like to post much in balance forums and explain my reasons because:
a) its pointless and waste of time when no balance patch is coming soon
b) i do not like to fight endless discussions against balance with fanboys. I state my reasons once. Why should I repeat the same over and over again ?

Hey,

as you have already stated you do not consider yourself a very good player. Maybe it will be wiser to stick to state office and ask for help when you are stuck with some replay (often different viewers see different problems, you might not be even aware of some common mistakes you make) instead of creating a balance threads. Because trolls often make fun out of newer players because they are an easier targer.

Hmm... okay. But you are not giving any arguments for the matter at hand, instead you are taking this on a "You are not a good player"-basis, which I can't understand, because it doesn't explain the discrepancy-topic.
And I thought trolls come out of their corners and write aggressive, non-solution-orientated comments and spam everyone with things noone think is relevant. How can my beeing a newer player and opening my first thread make me a target for trolls? Is there a "How-to-open-a-thread-without-pulling-the-trolls-in"-guideline?

Currently I do not see a big point in balance threads at all because game patching was freezed some time ago and there is no official statement that there will be new patch soon. Once another patch will be coming it will make sence to start discussing balance reasons.

Oh, I didn't know about such news, which is kind of bad, I agree. But wouldn't you say that there is no point at all to talk about any balance-issue, like the penal-op-issue?

I understand you frustration in a way, but I also don't understand every notion of your argumentation, as I stated above.

But thank you again

Hmm... okay. But you are not giving any arguments for the matter at hand, instead you are taking this on a "You are not a good player"-basis, which I can't understand, because it doesn't explain the discrepancy-topic.
And I thought trolls come out of their corners and write aggressive, non-solution-orientated comments and spam everyone with things noone think is relevant. How can my beeing a newer player and opening my first thread make me a target for trolls? Is there a "How-to-open-a-thread-without-pulling-the-trolls-in"-guideline?

The biggest argument against your thread is that you compare those units in a vacuum without regarding another factors like faction early game, strenght in terms of infantry or unit counter table. Right now the Soviets are one of the strongest factions and if we buffed T70 in terms of its arrival time we would break balance even more. Penals and Clown Car are very strong early on so Axis needs some kind of counterattack shock vehicle like 222 or Luchs. If it doesnt have enough time of opportunity before T70 shows up we will slide the balanced even more towards Soviets.

No there is not way how to make a troll-proof thread. But generally speaking newer players have much higher chance to make and improvement in their play when they ask for help in the State Office and not argue with trolls

Oh, I didn't know about such news, which is kind of bad, I agree. But wouldn't you say that there is no point at all to talk about any balance-issue, like the penal-op-issue?

I understand you frustration in a way, but I also don't understand every notion of your argumentation, as I stated above.

But thank you again

We have fully prepared patch - Fall Balance Patch that adresses many of current issues like call in meta or penals. There is no need to make balance discussion until Relic finally published ALREADY MADE patch which was point of discussion for like 3 months


Hope I helped you,
Hector

222 30 fuel