Russian Combined Arms (2v2) is a bit strong...

Seriously, how do you counter this effectively? (we played germans)
Kholodny Ferma Winter

Bulletins:
Player1:
Scoutcar Armor
Sniper ROF
Guards HP

Player2:
SU85 Range
Guards HP
KV8-Range

Build:
Snipers by player1 (some in scout car)
Half tracks w/ flamers by player2
Transition into SU85 by player 1
T70s by player 2
Guards by both


What do you do? The SU85s grossly outrange anything by Germans excluding the PAK43 and Elephant, 4 snipers kill entire squads and AT guns instantly, and guards button your scout cars that try to kill snipers and Russian scout cars.


We saw their bulletins and docs, so we assumed this was their build. My teammate (TradeMrk - he's on the forum) rushed T2 for scout cards, which was initially effective. However, once guards and AT nades hit, they became extremely hard to use effectively. I, meanwhile, went T1 to try and stop the conscripts, and lock down points with more capping power.

By the time I reached T3 and got a P4, they had an SU85 and several guard squads, which simply hard-countered it instantly. Trademrk did the same thing, with the same result. At this point, we were essentially pushed into our base, which gave them a massive fuel advantage (as expected).


Neither of us can think of an effective counter that isn't either purely luck based (mortars hitting things), or involves god-like micro (somehow staying out of the range of PTRS while in range of the 2cm cannons).

i think the general rule of thumb if it gets to that point your'e fucked

so you gotta play good throughout the entire match, have fuel domination or uncounterable shit like that happens

It's what I lost to tonight as well. I think you have to anticipate it well with fast scout cars each and shut down the snipers before they get guard out and hit critical mass. PGs and MG bunkers to fend off the Guard, along with mortars is all I can think of atm.

i think your main problems were the snipers and the su85s, both of these units are too strong right now and will be surely looked at in the next patches!

you could have build an elephant with spotting scopes, those eat su85s at extrem range and will win you the game against su85spammer.
sowjets snipers are uncounterable in late game, you just have to get lucky

My favorite thing to do is spam T34s while my ally spams SU-85.

+1 when two Russians playing in this way is very difficult counter them

He has lots of guards and you got a p4? Ostwind first baby! Second one of you should have pak43 commander or elephant commander or both. One of you having arty commander is also a good idea too. If they went snipers first you should have had the early map control and been able to keep them off the fuel enough to push their tank timing back enough to get ostwind out around time t-70's come out. Without seeing the game can't really comment any more then that. t1-t3 and t2-t4 should give you all the tools you need as long as you supplement with the right commanders.

i think your main problems were the snipers and the su85s, both of these units are too strong right now and will be surely looked at in the next patches!

you could have build an elephant with spotting scopes, those eat su85s at extrem range and will win you the game against su85spammer.
sowjets snipers are uncounterable in late game, you just have to get lucky

Elephant comes in at CP5 and requires 260 fuel and requires a doctrine (see the number of ands)... till then your left at SU85 mercy.

Its a joke when you need a doctrine unit to combat a non doctrine spammable unit, it should be the opposite.

He has lots of guards and you got a p4? Ostwind first baby! Second one of you should have pak43 commander or elephant commander or both. One of you having arty commander is also a good idea too. If they went snipers first you should have had the early map control and been able to keep them off the fuel enough to push their tank timing back enough to get ostwind out around time t-70's come out. Without seeing the game can't really comment any more then that. t1-t3 and t2-t4 should give you all the tools you need as long as you supplement with the right commanders.

Play a lot of Axis games? Tier 4? What exactly in T4 screams "I CAN BEAT AN SU 85!!!!" - a Brumbar? - A Panther? Lol - maybe you're referring to the nebel?

He has lots of guards and you got a p4? Ostwind first baby! Second one of you should have pak43 commander or elephant commander or both. One of you having arty commander is also a good idea too. If they went snipers first you should have had the early map control and been able to keep them off the fuel enough to push their tank timing back enough to get ostwind out around time t-70's come out. Without seeing the game can't really comment any more then that. t1-t3 and t2-t4 should give you all the tools you need as long as you supplement with the right commanders.

The P4 hit the field at the same time (actually a few seconds later) than his SU85. An ostwind costs the same, so it wouldn't have made a difference. The PIV was in hopes of taking out the one SU85 they had at that point.

As for commander, I went for the elephant, and my teammate went for the PAK43. The problem is, the elephant costs 5 points, and at the time the SU85 hit, I had about 3.75. Even then, the fuel cost is so high, and with the snipers and SU85s they pushed us off the fuel very quickly.

The same problem exists with the PAK. It's 4 points, costs a lot, can be sniped, killed by fire-bombs and so on. Even then, he managed to start building one, but it simply got rushed (it was just outside the base).

Also, we went T1-3 and T2-3. Axis T4 is simply too weak (SU85 beats Panther head-on, especially with +10% range bs bulletin) and too expensive to be viable.




My main problem with the strategy isn't that it's good combination; it's that there's literally NO viable counter. Axis infantry and AT guns get melted by snipers, and the snipers being 2-man can't be counter-sniped, while the SU85 (+10% range bulletin) out ranges literally everything.


After that game we farmed (1v1) the Scoutcar bulletins (range, HP, damage), and we'll be trying that, but still; countering a strategy should not require farming absolutely insane bulletins, and then having them equipped the entire time.

Play a lot of Axis games? Tier 4? What exactly in T4 screams "I CAN BEAT AN SU 85!!!!" - a Brumbar? - A Panther? Lol - maybe you're referring to the nebel?

Ya I've played more German then soviets, I don't beat su-85's with panthers (pather's are buffer not answer), and in my last week of playing 2v2 (didn't play any just 1v1 before) I've only lost one game as Germans and that was more due to the map of Minsik and we didn't completely throw our opponent off the map, and in particular their fuel and the fact neither me or my ally had any arty and the other team did, then su-85's although it certainly didn't help.

There are so many ways to kill su-85's that don't even require tanks it isn't funny, add in tanks and su-85 looks eh to me outside coming on field before (if it does come before) I have any counters to it, which being that I am going t2 is shrecks which crush su-85's.

Having both players spam p4's isn't a very good idea in a 2v2 you need combined arms to cover each others weaknesses. Through combined arms you deal with problems you don't charge head first going I'm going to kill you su-85!

You know someone doesn't play when they suggest Schreks as the primary counter to SU-85s.

The P4 hit the field at the same time (actually a few seconds later) than his SU85. An ostwind costs the same, so it wouldn't have made a difference. The PIV was in hopes of taking out the one SU85 they had at that point.

As for commander, I went for the elephant, and my teammate went for the PAK43. The problem is, the elephant costs 5 points, and at the time the SU85 hit, I had about 3.75. Even then, the fuel cost is so high, and with the snipers and SU85s they pushed us off the fuel very quickly.

The same problem exists with the PAK. It's 4 points, costs a lot, can be sniped, killed by fire-bombs and so on. Even then, he managed to start building one, but it simply got rushed (it was just outside the base).

Also, we went T1-3 and T2-3. Axis T4 is simply too weak (SU85 beats Panther head-on, especially with +10% range bs bulletin) and too expensive to be viable.




My main problem with the strategy isn't that it's good combination; it's that there's literally NO viable counter. Axis infantry and AT guns get melted by snipers, and the snipers being 2-man can't be counter-sniped, while the SU85 (+10% range bulletin) out ranges literally everything.


After that game we farmed (1v1) the Scoutcar bulletins (range, HP, damage), and we'll be trying that, but still; countering a strategy should not require farming absolutely insane bulletins, and then having them equipped the entire time.

There is window in early game to counter snipers before guards come out (which you should be able to do at least some what if one of you went fast tier 2) if you don't then you have problems later, even then later on you have arty and mortars, not spammed but as a combined force with the rest of your army. There are counters.

Are some bulletins a little too good? Yes but both sides have op bulletins so that is just the nature of auto matching, and hopefully relic will deal with them at some point in a future patch.

You know someone doesn't play when they suggest Schreks as the primary counter to SU-85s.

I never suggested they where a primary counter, just one of many that can be used and the easiest to get when a su-85 first appears if you have pgrens.

The amount of jumping to conclusions you guys do is pretty sad. I play everyday and win most of my games, I play both sides. There are counters to snipers and su-85's, individually they can countered by the other sides counters, but together (used right) they can deter or sometimes outright defeat your opponents stuff.

Well most stupid thing about the SU85 vs german armor is that SU85 comes at the same time or even faster then my Ostwind/P4 so the counter is up even before the unit.
Some say you can flank SU85 but in 2v2 its not possible due to AT nades and/or guards with button being everywhere.

Another great russian "tactic" in 2v2 is one guy spamming snipers in Clown cars, the other cons with later maxims and mortars and then both adds guards. It give you some map control in the first few minutes due to not so many cons but after that are fucked cuz you cant touch snipers in scoutcars and at nades+guards wont let you use any T2 vehicle. If you somehow manage to dig in and hold some point than heavy mortars and/or T70 spam kills you.

Btw I dunno if its intended or not but current SU are in 2v2 mostly played like allies in vCOH = infantry blob with snipers and button. The only diffence is that they need AT gun or SU85 to counter nearly everything germans have.


My exp from 2v2 (I dont play 1v1 at all) is that if you face decent opponent who (ab)use this shit you cant win unless you got very lucky with some random arty etc. Its sad