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russian armor

Your worst losses.

26 Sep 2017, 06:10 AM
#41
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



The Jackson is wicked unreliable. Look at the changes it was getting before the patch was scrapped to "unforseen circumstances". Far to unforgiving of a unit for how reliant the US are on it (unless you go armor). The sherman is great, but when you compare US final tier to the rest in the game it is clearly the worst.

I'm not even denying how big a problem Armor Company is. But call-in abuse is in no way a one-sided issue. And there is no argument to defend how god awful of an ability thompson crews is, US is the most muni-hungry faction in the game and its not at all worth it to drop that on that crew.



Jackson wasn't unreliable, it was m10 on steroids that nobody wanted because m10 is good enough and jackson requires a tier.

The changes made in FBP (which i btw support completely as usf being my "second" main) were aimed towards giving usf jackson a DIFFERENT role from m10 of sniper rather than kiting vehicle in a way it doesn't overlaps with m1.

The FBP version doesn't come from a buff, but an overhaul, costed more but got more staying power against vehicles.

It's a good change because it gives usf a tank sniper like other factions, rather than a hit and run vehicle, but by no way it means jackson now is "bad", especially if you look at 20 fuel difference over same gun.

Thompson given to vehicle crews are extremely good and make those usf sturmpios.
Problem is that double bar doesn't require a braincell to be in activity.

Fact that people consider bad a unit that is basically core in 2 factions for a faction that has all kind of smoke to support such cqb units just show how stupid is the concept of mainline fullfilling any ai role against any threat.

I wished you cared to explain how a unit that cost you nothing but 200 mp to recrew, outdps dedicated cqb units and can exploit only starting bad RA with smoke is bad..

And you still need to find me an axis doctrine that can provide you ai/at call ins abd eventually avoid teching like lend lease and armored company do, because if i call stug e/command panzer but than tech to stug g/panther the problem doesn't exist.
26 Sep 2017, 14:23 PM
#42
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4


And you still need to find me an axis doctrine that can provide you ai/at call ins abd eventually avoid teching like lend lease and armored company do, because if i call stug e/command panzer but than tech to stug g/panther the problem doesn't exist.

Why does that even matter? You can get out powerful vehicles cheaper and earlier than with teching. It gives you immediate field presence to push your advantage now. You can tech up and build other units later. It's not like building these units has any drawback to you.

Can you post your playercard? I want to see where you are coming from if you think these OKW commanders are bad.
26 Sep 2017, 14:36 PM
#43
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Sep 2017, 14:23 PMTobis

Why does that even matter? You can get out powerful vehicles cheaper and earlier than with teching. It gives you immediate field presence to push your advantage now. You can tech up and build other units later. It's not like building these units has any drawback to you.

Can you post your playercard? I want to see where you are coming from if you think these OKW commanders are bad.


"Scarvenge is simply good with everything useful, i have it among my three doctrines like i have heavy cav in usf and mobile defense in ukf, but it can give you any at power at all."



Arr you blind or what ? :loco:

The point is not having field presence the point is that YOU CAN'T SKIP TECHING...which would be unfair because it nullify any substantial fuel advantage.

And ostwind doesn't come earlier than mechanized even tho it comes earlier than flak ht, but ostwind is from a mid tier, not a top tier, soo...

We can argue about call in sure, isn't the point of call in revert a snowballing effect ? If a call in gives you the ability of retain field presence it is wrong/cheese ? (SINCERELY ASKING).
I never saw call ins as a problem, unless they are so relevant that they become key part of player strategy and can evetually bypass normal teching.

"You can tech up and build other units later."

I thought that was the point of call ins ?

Also

"You can tech up later."

You should say that to the fleet of m4c shermans, m10's and shermans bulldozer. :lolol:

Ps: I don't like spec ops, but not because i think it isn't powerful, i can't stand against the useless radio silence and fortification/elite armor are much better to me.
26 Sep 2017, 14:45 PM
#44
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Protip: saying protip makes you seem conceited/condescending

If that's how youre defining callin meta, then sure. However, that definition of callin meta is...irrelevant to the discussion honestly.

Even with your definition though, relying on a tiger callin is debatably callin meta (though not too meta). Spec ops and scavenge are full on call in meta. Sure, by your definition, ostwinds technically arent callin meta because ostwinds dont and arent supposed to replace any of the okw t4 vehicles, but theyre more effective than teching t4.

Spec ops and scavenge are by far the best and most meta okw commanders. Both involve dodging t4 (in spec ops' case, severely delaying it usually to the point that it never ends up being built) and using callin vehicles.


Spec ops could replace tier 4, spec ops SHOULD be locked in tier 4.
Ostwind can't
Greyhound can't
Hetzer can't
Panzer 4 command can't
FUCKING valentine can't

By the same reasoning valentine, hetzer, etc are all part of the call in meta and should be locked in tier 4, right ?

Tiger/is2 come too late to allow you to avoid teching.

Ps: But do me a favor, don't compare spec ops to armored, one single overpriced panther (that as i said, should still be locked to tier 4) isn't like using to full potential massed vehicles despite not going above captain.
26 Sep 2017, 15:01 PM
#45
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



And ostwind doesn't come earlier than mechanized even tho it comes earlier than flak ht, but ostwind is from a mid tier, not a top tier, soo...



Call-in meta isn't only about top tier. Long time ago the M8 was so good you could end a game by calling two of them and wiping all your opponent infantry.

And BTW, M10 are definitively not top tier units... But they counter well other armored units in number.
26 Sep 2017, 15:05 PM
#46
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Sep 2017, 15:01 PMEsxile


Call-in meta isn't only about top tier. Long time ago the M8 was so good you could end a game by calling two of them and wiping all your opponent infantry.

And BTW, M10 are definitively not top tier units... But they counter well other armored units in number.

I remember it, it was m8 canister shot, not timing/teching problems, because any faction had proper counters for m8 when it came.

I think that as long as it doesn't come too soon for the opponent to get a counter and it doesn't have the ai/at power capable of allowing tech dodging, why it is an issue ?

Op stats are another issue, like stug e, i don't see stug e being a problem now that it has been rightfully nerfed.
26 Sep 2017, 16:46 PM
#47
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

My worst losses utilize a correct definition of meta.

Like when I've lost crucial units to things like ghost sandbags and garrison wiring.

Or tripwire flares in doorways.
26 Sep 2017, 17:09 PM
#48
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



Spec ops could replace tier 4, spec ops SHOULD be locked in tier 4.
Ostwind can't
Greyhound can't
Hetzer can't
Panzer 4 command can't
FUCKING valentine can't

By the same reasoning valentine, hetzer, etc are all part of the call in meta and should be locked in tier 4, right ?

Tiger/is2 come too late to allow you to avoid teching.

Ps: But do me a favor, don't compare spec ops to armored, one single overpriced panther (that as i said, should still be locked to tier 4) isn't like using to full potential massed vehicles despite not going above captain.

Ahh, guess youre back to making stuff up. This is where i step out, which is fine since others seem ready to call you out on everything so that i dont need to
26 Sep 2017, 17:12 PM
#49
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



"Scarvenge is simply good with everything useful, i have it among my three doctrines like i have heavy cav in usf and mobile defense in ukf, but it can give you any at power at all."



Arr you blind or what ? :loco:

The point is not having field presence the point is that YOU CAN'T SKIP TECHING...which would be unfair because it nullify any substantial fuel advantage.

And ostwind doesn't come earlier than mechanized even tho it comes earlier than flak ht, but ostwind is from a mid tier, not a top tier, soo...

We can argue about call in sure, isn't the point of call in revert a snowballing effect ? If a call in gives you the ability of retain field presence it is wrong/cheese ? (SINCERELY ASKING).
I never saw call ins as a problem, unless they are so relevant that they become key part of player strategy and can evetually bypass normal teching.

"You can tech up and build other units later."

I thought that was the point of call ins ?

Also

"You can tech up later."

You should say that to the fleet of m4c shermans, m10's and shermans bulldozer. :lolol:

Ps: I don't like spec ops, but not because i think it isn't powerful, i can't stand against the useless radio silence and fortification/elite armor are much better to me.

@tobis this post is why we try to avoid discussing balance with people who dont understand the game (but think they do), huh?
26 Sep 2017, 17:23 PM
#50
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


@tobis this post is why we try to avoid discussing balance with people who dont understand the game (but think they do), huh?


Ehm sure, except that tobis made an assumption regarding my point of view which is totally wrong as BEFORE i said i think scarvenge is one of the best okw doctrine.
I corrected him to avoid any misunderstanding.
26 Sep 2017, 17:32 PM
#51
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Ahh, guess youre back to making stuff up. This is where i step out, which is fine since others seem ready to call you out on everything so that i dont need to


Valentine spam OpieOP :lolol:
Stug e meta :help:

yeah, step out, best thing to do when you got no solid argument at all to be silent.
You can't prove that any doctrine can dodge teching among those that contain call ins that i mentioned, when is full of competitive matches were major/soviet tier 4 was ingored in favor of m4c/m10&bulldozer..so if you are so immature to not even correct yourself and tell me i'm right, or explain me why i am not, at least you got the common sense of quit posting :clap:
27 Sep 2017, 01:13 AM
#52
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Keep up the dick behaviour.


Says the guy posting links to memes and taunting people with Emojis while discussing the balance of a game...

Call-in meta is not a one-sided issue. I don't know what is to be gained by suggesting it is, but keep on going all you want. Armor Company is only a big offender because of the timing and cost of m10s. They are spammable which emphasizes the fuel saving issue call-in abuse stems from. You say its because of AI and AT call-ins, but the dozer is terrible. Attack ground makes it usable at best, but it was also getting buffed in the last patch. M10 spam is the reason for Armor's popularity, plain and simple.

I am in the camp that all call-in vehicles should be tied to tech in some way. I didn't hate the approach of price premiums and I think it would have made people choose a wider variety of commanders instead of the popular meta.

For the love of God you are the only person I've ever met who thinks thompson crews are worth a damn. Why spend 200 mp and 90 muni when I can spend 280mp and 60 muni for a CQB squad that also gives me mines, anti-garrison, wire cutting, and demo charges? The dps difference literally only favors the Tommy Crew if the target squad is in negative or zero cover.

27 Sep 2017, 06:13 AM
#53
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Says the guy posting links to memes and taunting people with Emojis while discussing the balance of a game...

Call-in meta is not a one-sided issue. I don't know what is to be gained by suggesting it is, but keep on going all you want. Armor Company is only a big offender because of the timing and cost of m10s. They are spammable which emphasizes the fuel saving issue call-in abuse stems from. You say its because of AI and AT call-ins, but the dozer is terrible. Attack ground makes it usable at best, but it was also getting buffed in the last patch. M10 spam is the reason for Armor's popularity, plain and simple.

I am in the camp that all call-in vehicles should be tied to tech in some way. I didn't hate the approach of price premiums and I think it would have made people choose a wider variety of commanders instead of the popular meta.

For the love of God you are the only person I've ever met who thinks thompson crews are worth a damn. Why spend 200 mp and 90 muni when I can spend 280mp and 60 muni for a CQB squad that also gives me mines, anti-garrison, wire cutting, and demo charges? The dps difference literally only favors the Tommy Crew if the target squad is in negative or zero cover.


I already told you to explain WhERE IS THE ISSUE, if those call ins can't replace roster units.

Aren't call ins to fill a gap and let you tech up ?

The only call ins that allow to avoid teching are those sherman/m10.


1) the squad is potentially free if you happen to find your vehicle dead without any chance but you retreat crew

2) because is always good to put vetted vehicle crews in your new shiny m10

3) because that pesky mortar won't retreat if you decrew thompsin squad from your stuart
27 Sep 2017, 06:25 AM
#54
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



I already told you to explain WhERE IS THE ISSUE, if those call ins can't replace roster units.

Aren't call ins to fill a gap and let you tech up ?

The only call ins that allow to avoid teching are those sherman/m10.


1) the squad is potentially free if you happen to find your vehicle dead without any chance but you retreat crew

2) because is always good to put vetted vehicle crews in your new shiny m10

3) because that pesky mortar won't retreat if you decrew thompsin squad from your stuart



Why would I spent 90 munnition on a upgrade when I then put it together with the squad into a tank and never use it again :huh:

90 munnition and a bit of manpower (MP bleed) for a bit of vet to one of your tanks doesn´t seem like a dramdeal for me :)
27 Sep 2017, 07:52 AM
#55
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1



Valentine spam OpieOP :lolol:
Stug e meta :help:

yeah, step out, best thing to do when you got no solid argument at all to be silent.
You can't prove that any doctrine can dodge teching among those that contain call ins that i mentioned, when is full of competitive matches were major/soviet tier 4 was ingored in favor of m4c/m10&bulldozer..so if you are so immature to not even correct yourself and tell me i'm right, or explain me why i am not, at least you got the common sense of quit posting :clap:



It's such a complicated manner, so i will try to explain it analogically.

Lets say you want to buy an apple,
one costs 20 cent, one cost 50 cents. Whcih one do you buy? I know it's hard, take your time


So now lets say you want to buy a Panther, do you take the

one which cost

690MP 320FU

or the one which cost

560MP and 225FU which has better Sight range and abilities

?

I know It's hard to evaluate if 320 > 225 so yet again, take your time, it's ok



27 Sep 2017, 08:19 AM
#56
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660




It's such a complicated manner, so i will try to explain it analogically.

Lets say you want to buy an apple,
one costs 20 cent, one cost 50 cents. Whcih one do you buy? I know it's hard, take your time


So now lets say you want to buy a Panther, do you take the

one which cost

690MP 320FU

or the one which cost

560MP and 225FU which has better Sight range and abilities

?

I know It's hard to evaluate if 320 > 225 so yet again, take your time, it's ok





I already said command panther should be stuck in a tier 4 unit slot.

It's up there.
Can i suggest you non reflective lens for your new glasses ?

Ofc
27 Sep 2017, 09:31 AM
#57
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606



Are you fucking retarded ?



This is what I asked myself when I messed up my queue-order of picking up an abandoned mg and retreating the remaining squad, which resulted in my volks walked up next to the weapon and promptly retreating without picking it up. :S

Not the first time that happened either :(


P.S. :hijack:
27 Sep 2017, 09:41 AM
#58
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440



Are you fucking retarded ?


this also what happen to me when i decrew to repair my tank and the crew just walk toward to the frontline
27 Sep 2017, 10:10 AM
#59
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Lol and when you somehow find your mortar walking to the enemy XD
27 Sep 2017, 10:35 AM
#60
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

I think this thread is one of the biggest loses of a civilised coh2.org forum :(
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SHOUT IT OUT!

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KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
Yesterday, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
Last Thursday, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
Last Thursday, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
Last Thursday, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
Last Thursday, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
Last Thursday, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
Last Wednesday, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
Last Tuesday, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
Last Tuesday, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
Last Tuesday, 02:53 AM
Soheil: Coh2 is dead , full of map hackers , and lelic knows that but ...
Last Tuesday, 01:26 AM
aerafield: Oh how I missed the weird spam bots, welcome back :banana:
Last Monday, 13:05 PM
situsgbo777: Platform game online terpercaya dengan berbagai pilihan permainan seru dan peluang menang besar. Nikmati pengalaman bermain terbaik hanya di GBO777
Last Monday, 06:48 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield that does sound familiar
Last Sunday, 09:06 AM
aerafield: @Lady Xenarra :rofl:
Last Sunday, 01:45 AM
Lady Xenarra: Ah, the gren faust-replacing-rifles bug/exploit. :ph34r:
01 Mar 2025, 18:24 PM
aerafield: CoH3 high elo is truly the dumbest CoH experience that ever existed
01 Mar 2025, 17:25 PM
aerafield: @OKSpitfire tbh I find it quite challenging to get the Pershing in time, having to suffer through the CoH3 tickrate and this endless bullshit meta of massive blobs going back and forth to the forward heal truck
01 Mar 2025, 17:24 PM
OKSpitfire: Well... going to be seeing the Pershing a lot for a little while, that thing is a monster.
01 Mar 2025, 11:44 AM
NigelBallsworth: axis stuff is getting more meme by the second
28 Feb 2025, 23:32 PM
aerafield: Cloaked instapin MGs at 0cp. I wanna see no more crying about the Dingo while that shit is in the game :snfPeter:
28 Feb 2025, 20:38 PM
Willy Pete: And only on annihilation, and I have to let the AI live long enough...
28 Feb 2025, 02:04 AM
Willy Pete: Pershing is absurd, but ive still only gotten to use it against AI
28 Feb 2025, 02:03 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Pershing for Axis, that is all :lolol:
27 Feb 2025, 13:32 PM
donofsandiego: :clap:
27 Feb 2025, 02:34 AM
donofsandiego: Return of the chatGPT writing prompt. Lets see how shinasukac responds to these questions utilizing the Socratic Method. Maybe he will give us an interesting look into his opinions
27 Feb 2025, 02:34 AM
Willy Pete: I havent even seen a pershing yet. Coh3 games still move too fast for it lol
27 Feb 2025, 00:30 AM
shinasukac: kingtiger=kingjoker
26 Feb 2025, 16:27 PM
Lady Xenarra: Has anyone actually used the KT much? My experience is that the match is usually over long before I get the CPs for it
26 Feb 2025, 14:35 PM
Rosbone: Can someone message me the day you can look at Coh3 and not face palm yourself in disbelief that actual humans worked on it? Much appreciated.
26 Feb 2025, 06:40 AM
Rosbone: The only way to feel good about Coh3 is to never look at Coh3. Once you see it, you cant unsee it.
26 Feb 2025, 06:37 AM
Rosbone: Observer mode sucks, player stats pages are scatter brained mess, etc etc etc
26 Feb 2025, 06:35 AM
Rosbone: It is really hard to tell people to buy the DLC with feeling like they are throwing their money down the toilet for a nearly dead game. But Big Tonks!!! Oh well, not my problem.
25 Feb 2025, 18:12 PM
Rosbone: No 4v4 maps, busted menus 2 years after release, still have not fixed janky sounds people have complained about for over 2 years, etc etc.
25 Feb 2025, 18:10 PM
Rosbone: And the skirmish menus are still at a BETA level. Just the largest game play mode completely ignored... again.
25 Feb 2025, 18:09 PM
Willy Pete: Oh wtf. Yeah the crossing remake was in the 2v2 demo. No more 3s and 4s is a bummer tho
25 Feb 2025, 16:42 PM
aerafield: What? No, he means that all the new maps are for 1v1. Though Im pretty sure they will be playable in 2v2 as well
25 Feb 2025, 15:50 PM
Willy Pete: Are the maps really locked behind dlc? Surely they must be in the regular update
25 Feb 2025, 15:22 PM
Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
21 Feb 2025, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
21 Feb 2025, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
20 Feb 2025, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
20 Feb 2025, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
20 Feb 2025, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
20 Feb 2025, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
20 Feb 2025, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
19 Feb 2025, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
19 Feb 2025, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
19 Feb 2025, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
19 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
19 Feb 2025, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
19 Feb 2025, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
19 Feb 2025, 10:33 AM
aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
19 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
19 Feb 2025, 09:57 AM
aerafield: I am a simple man, I build Humvees with Pathfinders and Missile Launchers inside, I am happy
18 Feb 2025, 20:57 PM
Lady Xenarra: aerafield lamevee spammer confirmed :nahnah:
18 Feb 2025, 20:42 PM
aerafield: those who know, know: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/s/fPk4yLIgmK
18 Feb 2025, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
17 Feb 2025, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
14 Feb 2025, 23:14 PM

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