Your worst losses.

The Jackson is wicked unreliable. Look at the changes it was getting before the patch was scrapped to "unforseen circumstances". Far to unforgiving of a unit for how reliant the US are on it (unless you go armor). The sherman is great, but when you compare US final tier to the rest in the game it is clearly the worst.

I'm not even denying how big a problem Armor Company is. But call-in abuse is in no way a one-sided issue. And there is no argument to defend how god awful of an ability thompson crews is, US is the most muni-hungry faction in the game and its not at all worth it to drop that on that crew.

Jackson wasn't unreliable, it was m10 on steroids that nobody wanted because m10 is good enough and jackson requires a tier.

The changes made in FBP (which i btw support completely as usf being my "second" main) were aimed towards giving usf jackson a DIFFERENT role from m10 of sniper rather than kiting vehicle in a way it doesn't overlaps with m1.

The FBP version doesn't come from a buff, but an overhaul, costed more but got more staying power against vehicles.

It's a good change because it gives usf a tank sniper like other factions, rather than a hit and run vehicle, but by no way it means jackson now is "bad", especially if you look at 20 fuel difference over same gun.

Thompson given to vehicle crews are extremely good and make those usf sturmpios.
Problem is that double bar doesn't require a braincell to be in activity.

Fact that people consider bad a unit that is basically core in 2 factions for a faction that has all kind of smoke to support such cqb units just show how stupid is the concept of mainline fullfilling any ai role against any threat.

I wished you cared to explain how a unit that cost you nothing but 200 mp to recrew, outdps dedicated cqb units and can exploit only starting bad RA with smoke is bad..

And you still need to find me an axis doctrine that can provide you ai/at call ins abd eventually avoid teching like lend lease and armored company do, because if i call stug e/command panzer but than tech to stug g/panther the problem doesn't exist.

And you still need to find me an axis doctrine that can provide you ai/at call ins abd eventually avoid teching like lend lease and armored company do, because if i call stug e/command panzer but than tech to stug g/panther the problem doesn't exist.

Why does that even matter? You can get out powerful vehicles cheaper and earlier than with teching. It gives you immediate field presence to push your advantage now. You can tech up and build other units later. It's not like building these units has any drawback to you.

Can you post your playercard? I want to see where you are coming from if you think these OKW commanders are bad.

Why does that even matter? You can get out powerful vehicles cheaper and earlier than with teching. It gives you immediate field presence to push your advantage now. You can tech up and build other units later. It's not like building these units has any drawback to you.

Can you post your playercard? I want to see where you are coming from if you think these OKW commanders are bad.

"Scarvenge is simply good with everything useful, i have it among my three doctrines like i have heavy cav in usf and mobile defense in ukf, but it can give you any at power at all."



Arr you blind or what ?

The point is not having field presence the point is that YOU CAN'T SKIP TECHING...which would be unfair because it nullify any substantial fuel advantage.

And ostwind doesn't come earlier than mechanized even tho it comes earlier than flak ht, but ostwind is from a mid tier, not a top tier, soo...

We can argue about call in sure, isn't the point of call in revert a snowballing effect ? If a call in gives you the ability of retain field presence it is wrong/cheese ? (SINCERELY ASKING).
I never saw call ins as a problem, unless they are so relevant that they become key part of player strategy and can evetually bypass normal teching.

"You can tech up and build other units later."

I thought that was the point of call ins ?

Also

"You can tech up later."

You should say that to the fleet of m4c shermans, m10's and shermans bulldozer.

Ps: I don't like spec ops, but not because i think it isn't powerful, i can't stand against the useless radio silence and fortification/elite armor are much better to me.

Protip: saying protip makes you seem conceited/condescending

If that's how youre defining callin meta, then sure. However, that definition of callin meta is...irrelevant to the discussion honestly.

Even with your definition though, relying on a tiger callin is debatably callin meta (though not too meta). Spec ops and scavenge are full on call in meta. Sure, by your definition, ostwinds technically arent callin meta because ostwinds dont and arent supposed to replace any of the okw t4 vehicles, but theyre more effective than teching t4.

Spec ops and scavenge are by far the best and most meta okw commanders. Both involve dodging t4 (in spec ops' case, severely delaying it usually to the point that it never ends up being built) and using callin vehicles.

Spec ops could replace tier 4, spec ops SHOULD be locked in tier 4.
Ostwind can't
Greyhound can't
Hetzer can't
Panzer 4 command can't
FUCKING valentine can't

By the same reasoning valentine, hetzer, etc are all part of the call in meta and should be locked in tier 4, right ?

Tiger/is2 come too late to allow you to avoid teching.

Ps: But do me a favor, don't compare spec ops to armored, one single overpriced panther (that as i said, should still be locked to tier 4) isn't like using to full potential massed vehicles despite not going above captain.

And ostwind doesn't come earlier than mechanized even tho it comes earlier than flak ht, but ostwind is from a mid tier, not a top tier, soo...

Call-in meta isn't only about top tier. Long time ago the M8 was so good you could end a game by calling two of them and wiping all your opponent infantry.

And BTW, M10 are definitively not top tier units... But they counter well other armored units in number.

Call-in meta isn't only about top tier. Long time ago the M8 was so good you could end a game by calling two of them and wiping all your opponent infantry.

And BTW, M10 are definitively not top tier units... But they counter well other armored units in number.

I remember it, it was m8 canister shot, not timing/teching problems, because any faction had proper counters for m8 when it came.

I think that as long as it doesn't come too soon for the opponent to get a counter and it doesn't have the ai/at power capable of allowing tech dodging, why it is an issue ?

Op stats are another issue, like stug e, i don't see stug e being a problem now that it has been rightfully nerfed.

My worst losses utilize a correct definition of meta.

Like when I've lost crucial units to things like ghost sandbags and garrison wiring.

Or tripwire flares in doorways.

Spec ops could replace tier 4, spec ops SHOULD be locked in tier 4.
Ostwind can't
Greyhound can't
Hetzer can't
Panzer 4 command can't
FUCKING valentine can't

By the same reasoning valentine, hetzer, etc are all part of the call in meta and should be locked in tier 4, right ?

Tiger/is2 come too late to allow you to avoid teching.

Ps: But do me a favor, don't compare spec ops to armored, one single overpriced panther (that as i said, should still be locked to tier 4) isn't like using to full potential massed vehicles despite not going above captain.

Ahh, guess youre back to making stuff up. This is where i step out, which is fine since others seem ready to call you out on everything so that i dont need to

"Scarvenge is simply good with everything useful, i have it among my three doctrines like i have heavy cav in usf and mobile defense in ukf, but it can give you any at power at all."



Arr you blind or what ?

The point is not having field presence the point is that YOU CAN'T SKIP TECHING...which would be unfair because it nullify any substantial fuel advantage.

And ostwind doesn't come earlier than mechanized even tho it comes earlier than flak ht, but ostwind is from a mid tier, not a top tier, soo...

We can argue about call in sure, isn't the point of call in revert a snowballing effect ? If a call in gives you the ability of retain field presence it is wrong/cheese ? (SINCERELY ASKING).
I never saw call ins as a problem, unless they are so relevant that they become key part of player strategy and can evetually bypass normal teching.

"You can tech up and build other units later."

I thought that was the point of call ins ?

Also

"You can tech up later."

You should say that to the fleet of m4c shermans, m10's and shermans bulldozer.

Ps: I don't like spec ops, but not because i think it isn't powerful, i can't stand against the useless radio silence and fortification/elite armor are much better to me.

@tobis this post is why we try to avoid discussing balance with people who dont understand the game (but think they do), huh?

@tobis this post is why we try to avoid discussing balance with people who dont understand the game (but think they do), huh?

Ehm sure, except that tobis made an assumption regarding my point of view which is totally wrong as BEFORE i said i think scarvenge is one of the best okw doctrine.
I corrected him to avoid any misunderstanding.

Ahh, guess youre back to making stuff up. This is where i step out, which is fine since others seem ready to call you out on everything so that i dont need to

Valentine spam OpieOP
Stug e meta

yeah, step out, best thing to do when you got no solid argument at all to be silent.
You can't prove that any doctrine can dodge teching among those that contain call ins that i mentioned, when is full of competitive matches were major/soviet tier 4 was ingored in favor of m4c/m10&bulldozer..so if you are so immature to not even correct yourself and tell me i'm right, or explain me why i am not, at least you got the common sense of quit posting

Keep up the dick behaviour.

Says the guy posting links to memes and taunting people with Emojis while discussing the balance of a game...

Call-in meta is not a one-sided issue. I don't know what is to be gained by suggesting it is, but keep on going all you want. Armor Company is only a big offender because of the timing and cost of m10s. They are spammable which emphasizes the fuel saving issue call-in abuse stems from. You say its because of AI and AT call-ins, but the dozer is terrible. Attack ground makes it usable at best, but it was also getting buffed in the last patch. M10 spam is the reason for Armor's popularity, plain and simple.

I am in the camp that all call-in vehicles should be tied to tech in some way. I didn't hate the approach of price premiums and I think it would have made people choose a wider variety of commanders instead of the popular meta.

For the love of God you are the only person I've ever met who thinks thompson crews are worth a damn. Why spend 200 mp and 90 muni when I can spend 280mp and 60 muni for a CQB squad that also gives me mines, anti-garrison, wire cutting, and demo charges? The dps difference literally only favors the Tommy Crew if the target squad is in negative or zero cover.

Says the guy posting links to memes and taunting people with Emojis while discussing the balance of a game...

Call-in meta is not a one-sided issue. I don't know what is to be gained by suggesting it is, but keep on going all you want. Armor Company is only a big offender because of the timing and cost of m10s. They are spammable which emphasizes the fuel saving issue call-in abuse stems from. You say its because of AI and AT call-ins, but the dozer is terrible. Attack ground makes it usable at best, but it was also getting buffed in the last patch. M10 spam is the reason for Armor's popularity, plain and simple.

I am in the camp that all call-in vehicles should be tied to tech in some way. I didn't hate the approach of price premiums and I think it would have made people choose a wider variety of commanders instead of the popular meta.

For the love of God you are the only person I've ever met who thinks thompson crews are worth a damn. Why spend 200 mp and 90 muni when I can spend 280mp and 60 muni for a CQB squad that also gives me mines, anti-garrison, wire cutting, and demo charges? The dps difference literally only favors the Tommy Crew if the target squad is in negative or zero cover.

I already told you to explain WhERE IS THE ISSUE, if those call ins can't replace roster units.

Aren't call ins to fill a gap and let you tech up ?

The only call ins that allow to avoid teching are those sherman/m10.


1) the squad is potentially free if you happen to find your vehicle dead without any chance but you retreat crew

2) because is always good to put vetted vehicle crews in your new shiny m10

3) because that pesky mortar won't retreat if you decrew thompsin squad from your stuart

I already told you to explain WhERE IS THE ISSUE, if those call ins can't replace roster units.

Aren't call ins to fill a gap and let you tech up ?

The only call ins that allow to avoid teching are those sherman/m10.


1) the squad is potentially free if you happen to find your vehicle dead without any chance but you retreat crew

2) because is always good to put vetted vehicle crews in your new shiny m10

3) because that pesky mortar won't retreat if you decrew thompsin squad from your stuart

Why would I spent 90 munnition on a upgrade when I then put it together with the squad into a tank and never use it again

90 munnition and a bit of manpower (MP bleed) for a bit of vet to one of your tanks doesn´t seem like a dramdeal for me

Valentine spam OpieOP
Stug e meta

yeah, step out, best thing to do when you got no solid argument at all to be silent.
You can't prove that any doctrine can dodge teching among those that contain call ins that i mentioned, when is full of competitive matches were major/soviet tier 4 was ingored in favor of m4c/m10&bulldozer..so if you are so immature to not even correct yourself and tell me i'm right, or explain me why i am not, at least you got the common sense of quit posting

It's such a complicated manner, so i will try to explain it analogically.

Lets say you want to buy an apple,
one costs 20 cent, one cost 50 cents. Whcih one do you buy? I know it's hard, take your time


So now lets say you want to buy a Panther, do you take the

one which cost

690MP 320FU

or the one which cost

560MP and 225FU which has better Sight range and abilities

?

I know It's hard to evaluate if 320 > 225 so yet again, take your time, it's ok

It's such a complicated manner, so i will try to explain it analogically.

Lets say you want to buy an apple,
one costs 20 cent, one cost 50 cents. Whcih one do you buy? I know it's hard, take your time


So now lets say you want to buy a Panther, do you take the

one which cost

690MP 320FU

or the one which cost

560MP and 225FU which has better Sight range and abilities

?

I know It's hard to evaluate if 320 > 225 so yet again, take your time, it's ok

I already said command panther should be stuck in a tier 4 unit slot.

It's up there.
Can i suggest you non reflective lens for your new glasses ?

Ofc

Are you fucking retarded ?

This is what I asked myself when I messed up my queue-order of picking up an abandoned mg and retreating the remaining squad, which resulted in my volks walked up next to the weapon and promptly retreating without picking it up.

Not the first time that happened either


P.S.

Are you fucking retarded ?

this also what happen to me when i decrew to repair my tank and the crew just walk toward to the frontline

Lol and when you somehow find your mortar walking to the enemy XD

I think this thread is one of the biggest loses of a civilised coh2.org forum