CoH2 and AoE4

It is a fact that Relic totally failed at balancing this game through this 5 years.
Do you imagine them balancing AoE4 with at least 10 or 12 factions?? lol

It is a fact that Relic totally failed at balancing this game through this 5 years.
Do you imagine them balancing AoE4 with at least 10 or 12 factions?? lol

With most factions basically sharing the same units. That's not the problem, cause you can even play mirror matches which even further reduces unit balance issues.
The uncertainty comes from a basic design point. Age of empires is a game which focuses on simple "micro" game mechanics but with HEAVY macro/economic/teching decisions playstyle.

Just compare any AoE with any of RTS relic franchises (CoH, DoW and HW).

Dawn of War 3 is the testament to Relic's new approach towards trying to be competitive and go play with the big boys (namely LoL, Dota 2 and StarCraft 2) at ESL, and as far as I know some of the people playing the Age series are competitive so don't really expect a really fun and not DLC filled experience.

It will just be another quick cash grab wanna be e-sports title.

Or just a wanna be e-sports title, I am not sure.

They haven't tried to milk Dawn of War 3 yet because of the low player numbers since they know if they try to do what they did with CoH 2 they'd be shooting themselves in the head, not the foot.

But yeah, CoH 2 is in a bad shape balance wise if you ask me, DoW 3 ain't doing too good and it's still in it's first year of being out, AoE 4 ain't looking too hot for me and many others who have dealt with Relic.

The AoE fanboys can keep their hype but that's probably because they haven't played a recent Relic game.

The original Dawn of War and Company of Heroes is where Relic's legacy dies.

Dawn of War 3 is the testament to Relic's new approach towards trying to be competitive and go play with the big boys (namely LoL, Dota 2 and StarCraft 2) at ESL, and as far as I know some of the people playing the Age series are competitive so don't really expect a really fun and not DLC filled experience.

It will just be another quick cash grab wanna be e-sports title.

Or just a wanna be e-sports title, I am not sure.

They haven't tried to milk Dawn of War 3 yet because of the low player numbers since they know if they try to do what they did with CoH 2 they'd be shooting themselves in the head, not the foot.

But yeah, CoH 2 is in a bad shape balance wise if you ask me, DoW 3 ain't doing too good and it's still in it's first year of being out, AoE 4 ain't looking too hot for me and many others who have dealt with Relic.

The AoE fanboys can keep their hype but that's probably because they haven't played a recent Relic game.

The original Dawn of War and Company of Heroes is where Relic's legacy dies.

I believe Relic has two teams at this point, and this isn't the DoW3 team working on it, or if it is, they are supplementing a smaller team that has already been doing the backwork. The lead game designer is different, atleast.

With most factions basically sharing the same units. That's not the problem, cause you can even play mirror matches which even further reduces unit balance issues.
The uncertainty comes from a basic design point. Age of empires is a game which focuses on simple "micro" game mechanics but with HEAVY macro/economic/teching decisions playstyle.

Isn't it the other way around where meta is even more static by dictated build orders while the best microed armies win the game in one final battle/several engagements of attrition?

Macro and economic RTS are boring

Macro and economic RTS are boring

Depends on the player....and game.

Macro and economic RTS are boring

If you have 20+ units with a good counter and synergy system they aren't boring at all.

Most unique RTS games work because they do their own thing. Although most games use the same principles, they take it in different directions. When a unique RTS game tries to do things that don´t belong to its genre, like DOW3, we see it fail.

People need to realize the rough times Relic went through during the creation, release and post release period of CoH2. The fact that we have a CoH2 with multiple factions and dlc is a miracle on its own.

DOW3 however, that was a pure representation of the current Relic at its fullest potential. AOE4 will be interesting indeed.

It is a fact that Relic totally failed at balancing this game through this 5 years.
Do you imagine them balancing AoE4 with at least 10 or 12 factions?? lol

look at other game companies, the first one i can think about is blizzard that managed to balance a game like overwatch with almost 20 COMPLETELY different heroes (per exemple, one got 150hp and another 600 hp, the first is hitscan, the second is shooting projectiles, and still both heroes are EQUAL and got almost same win ratio at high level).
Then you go back on coh2 and realize how much easier it is to balance this game compared to overwatch and laugh at relic

let's be realistic, RELIC can't make a game balanced, even when it require very little work like at the release of coh2 when there was only soviet & osther, so don't except Age Of Empire to be balanced.

Because even if the factions in Age of empire share some similar units, there are still a lot of difference between these factions that require knowledge and work to make them work together and overall make the game fun to play.
Can't believe microsoft was dumb enough to tell relic to make the next game of one of the most loved game series..

look at other game companies, the first one i can think about is blizzard that managed to balance a game like overwatch with almost 20 COMPLETELY different heroes (per exemple, one got 150hp and another 600 hp, the first is hitscan, the second is shooting projectiles, and still both heroes are EQUAL and got almost same win ratio at high level).

You do realize things like RTS have far more interactions between various factors than in Overwatch.

On AoE, balance likely won't be as hard to achieve, however, as the factions will not be as diverse if we're talking about units. It'll likely come more down to economic factors and anything regarding macro.

Isn't it the other way around where meta is even more static by dictated build orders while the best microed armies win the game in one final battle/several engagements of attrition?

Besides the first minutes of the game, i think there's too many variables to be talking about "static" build orders. Besides which type of focus strat one might go (turtle (def), boom (eco) or rush (agro)), there's a point on which someone just adapts accordingly what you scout or what the maps has to offer.

There is a lot of micro going on, i might have to clarify it.
But there is no such thing as spellcasters (unit with active abilities) on AoE (monks or demos can barely be classified as such) so most of the fights is about general positioning and kitting in the case of ranged units. The game has a lot of back n forth and the engagements may seem slow. That's why i say more simple if we compare it to other much faster/complex RTS. That doesn't mean easier, because the game has a heavy reliance on the economic aspect. If you can't focus on macroing while attacking, it's almost falls flat as you are not pushing any advantage.

...

Sigh, because comparing a team based MOBA-esque FPS with a mostly 1v1 oriented strategy game has so much in common...

I guess you are comparing Tracer with Roadhog which can be further away from each other. You have to also take into account W/L with PICK RATE, because if that would be the case, Symmetra would be OP. If we talk about competitive, the hero pool is quite small. Something like 4 heroes above 75% pick rate, other 4 above 50% and 2 or 3 niche picks. The rest are under 5-10% and some never use. Which basically is half the roster.

Balance wise: Beyblade meta? Triple tank? Dive meta? McGod and pre nerf Widow? Almost a whole year of Ana? Stacking heroes on first seasons (Winston/Tracer stacks)

I found it curious how you mention blizzard and you don't talk about SC2. The competitive playerbase was not quite happy with them for several years and the lack of "support" to keep the game alive even if it's one or the most popular RTS. They had similar issues balance wise with the mentality of releasing a patch and waiting 3 months till "people figure it out". This sounds quite familiar.


Balance is not what Blizzard shines at. Product quality and in the case of OW, community interaction (Hi this is Jeff from the OW team...) and constant patches and support for their games. Note: having a 30million best seller game helps quite a lot.

Not everything is greener on the other side. Relic did quite a lot for this game but fall flat WAY too much on certain aspects which at this point is beating a dead horse. Check other RTS developers. They haven't done much better. Reality is: people who grew up and play during the golden era of RTS are too old, and the new generation just prefer MOBAs for their taste of "strategic play".

I don't feel the game is gonna be a game breaking success for a simple reason. W10 + W store exclusivity. GLHF Bill.

Here you can find more info about AoE4

That site has no other info on AoE4 besides the game trailer.

I don't feel the game is gonna be a game breaking success for a simple reason. W10 + W store exclusivity. GLHF Bill.

Sorry to correct you but only W10 exclusivity has been confirmed. AoE4 windows store exclusive is just a fan assumption that is not supported by any reliable source. Contrary to popular belief the opposite seems to be happening with MS testing Windows store/steam crossplay.

I posted this in AoE4 thread;
https://www.coh2.org/topic/62922/relic-working-on-age-of-empires-4/page/4#post_id630270

Recent news is Killer Instinct is coming to Steam (owned by MS). Killer Instinct is win10/xbox. The studio (Rare) and IP are owned by Microsoft.
https://news.xbox.com/2017/09/27/killer-instinct-now-available-on-steam/

More "news" related to this important ms/sega partnership is coming but here are a bit more to "connect the dots";
Confirmed; Win10 + Steam crossplay are coming
Check below links MS are testing Cross-network Play; Win10 store (xbox live using Universal Windows Platform) + Steam using steamworks/win32

Rise of Nations: Extended Edition Comes to Windows Store with Cross-network Play on Sept. 14 (posted August 18, 2017)

*SNIP*
At Xbox, we support creating moments that connect gamers with their friends in new and innovative ways. In support of this, today, I am proud to announce that the historic RTS hit Rise of Nations: Extended Edition is coming to Windows Store on September 14th, with the unique cross-network play feature that enables fans to challenge up to eight players online with Windows 10, across Xbox Live and Steam. We want gamers to enjoy this classic Game of the Year-winning RTS through sharing multiplayer experiences with their friends, and it’s now a reality for Windows 10 gamers to join over two million Rise of Nations fans on Steam in mastering 6,000 years of history, from the Ancient Age to the Information Age.

For a limited time, Rise of Nations: Extended Edition will be available in Windows Store for only $4.99 USD. The regular price will be $19.99.
Read more at https://news.xbox.com/2017/08/18/rise-of-nations-extended-edition-windows-store/#uj4Fo83oPCK0SLV1.99

Microsoft acquires classic civilization game Rise of Nations, future games hinted by Xbox head (Sunday, Jun 1, 2014)
https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-acquires-rise-nations-ip-future-games-hinted-xbox-head

Phil Spencer also just got a big promotion (Executive vice president of gaming) and now in total control of MS gaming division reporting directly to MS CEO.
Microsoft executives and Board of Directors members
https://news.microsoft.com/leadership/
https://news.microsoft.com/exec/phil-spencer-2/
Xbox chief Phil Spencer gets a promotion and a seat at Microsoft's exec table
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/306062/Xbox_chief_Phil_Spencer_gets_a_promotion_and_a_seat_at_Microsofts_exec_table.php
https://www.destructoid.com/phil-spencer-is-movin-on-up-at-microsoft-462099.phtml

For those that do not understand what this means. Phil Spencer is now considered to be the top gaming executive in MS and all the other executives will listen to him including the CEO (not the other way around). The CEO is just a business executive that is taking advice from each division leaders.
That the MS CEO want Phil Spencer as his personal gaming adviser is a huge vote of confidence is Spencer's leadership abilities and vision for MS gaming.
Phil Spencer's Xbox promotion! What does it mean?


Top gaming revenue;


https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar16/index.html

Our gaming roadmap over the next 18 months is anchored by two significant console releases – Xbox One S and Project Scorpio – and investments in growth areas such as virtual reality, video, and eSports.

Quantum computing, theorized for decades by some of the world’s greatest minds as a way to harness the very building blocks of matter and energy for unimaginable computing capabilities and intelligence, is emerging today as a feasible technology. Its realization will bring new power to cure disease and address global challenges like climate change. Our people and partners right now are solving the hard problems of experimental and theoretical physics, mathematics, and computer science that will accelerate quantum computing’s becoming a reality.

On a personal note;

I'm not posting here to win a popularity contest but to foster open-minded and informed discussions.
I do hate/dislike echo chambers a lot more than I hate flame wars. For those community leaders that is not paying attention. Echo chambers and safe space/social justice warriors are rapidly destroying free speech on the internet that lead to polarisation of society. Unless anyone got plans to fight civil uprising/collapse of society, you better start taking free speech/open-minded discussion a lot more seriously. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Complacency won't keep anyone safe, that's for sure.
The west right now got a lot of problems (socially, cultural, economics etc.) and if we don't defend free speech we are pretty much screwed. Especially psychological warfare and financial warfare are very evil and if both women and men do not come together to fight this evil, have fun watching your country die. Society needs BOTH strong women and men. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not joking when I say, please inform yourself because many more men will get into trouble in the years to come. Staying safe, include staying informed.

The great overlords of automated censorship include social media. This guy from TED predicted this years ago how social media would destroy free speech.
Beware online "filter bubbles" | Eli Pariser

https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_pariser_beware_online_filter_bubbles#t-38380

Relic safe space/echo chamber vs Reality:

Sorry to correct you but only W10 exclusivity has been confirmed. AoE4 windows store exclusive is just a fan assumption that is not supported by any reliable source.

snip information...

Well, at least there's that. Still W10

Thx for the info.
I've also heard rumours that they flight some pros (Vipper/Daut) to Vancouver. It might be for AoE 2 HD DLC (Skybox Labs) but it might not hurt visiting Relic right?

Yeah, age 4 will be like this:

10x cannon fires on foot of a tshirt soldier to kill.

You make a #%$$$ tower that are killed by 4 tshirt guys ez.

They will create some "mortar" that have GPS and radar with perfect shots.

They will create some "sniper" in that no range game to bee op.

Rip age4.

Well, at least there's that. Still W10

Thx for the info.
I've also heard rumours that they flight some pros (Vipper/Daut) to Vancouver. It might be for AoE 2 HD DLC (Skybox Labs) but it might not hurt visiting Relic right?

Forgotten Expansions tends to publish another AoE2 expansion set in autumm/winter (like the did Rise of Rajas last year in November/December )