countering luchs as Soviets

been trying things out to counter luchs as soviets, any thought? I have tried leading with a couple of conscripts and getting AT nades, this seems to be ineffective, penals with at rifles is slightly worse, so is it better to try for tier 2 quickly after tier 1? .. I know obvious stuff like T70, but against OKW the game is often over due to the damage dealt by Luchs before I can get one, so I sort of gave up on that particular one horse race due to OKW early map control which ive learnt to accept.

let me join your advice train. have same issue

but for early map control by OKW i'll suggest you cause as much chaos as possible by M3 if volk stay behide cover you drive around their back and hit em find another unit (which some still doing caping) and do it again while the other engineer gain as much control as you can while lay mine on specific location you think luch might chase your M3 down or during chasing retreat squad

then pray for them to hit the mine and pray again to hope you have something to finish them off FeelsTooMuchMicroMans

Lay mines. Lay them early, lay them often.

Even if the luchs never hits a mine, their threat can act as a significant cooler on how far a player will dive to chase your units. It also draws out their sturmpios for their minesweepers more. The more distractions you can put on their sturmpios the better off you'll be.

I still think the OKW matchup versus soviets necessitates a T2 start, or great usage of the m3 early on. Mind you, I haven't played much at all with the newest variant on the maxim so keep that in mind.

The Penals are there to troll the crap out of Ostheer.

Yeah, it's less of a counter, but it can really help buy you the time you need as Soviets.

Mines are good, OKW players who get luchs usually are quite aggressive. If you have an m3 you can bait them into a mine and ambush with cons/penals

thank you all for your responses,here are my thoughts on them, unlike cons penals cant build sandbags and come out later, they are outnumbered until you have 3 squads, the early game advantage goes to grens until you have three penal squads, I generally find OKW have better map control than I do if I go tier 1. I have tried mines but then I cant use ammo based counters such as PTRS and sticky satchels, the last game I was base raided by the luchs after retreating, this was 6 minutes in, I had only laid two mines and got a flamer to dislodge garrisoned units, one mine had already been hit by grens, you have to be very lucky to have a luchs hit a mine, maybe its the map control problem more than the luchs, I need to try and stall the early rush that makes the luchs attack so early, I will revisit the M3 scout car, although like the 2 engineer start it slows down production of the three penals and ties up the engineer to repair duties rather than point capping, maybe im just bad with that unit, but I have rarely got my money's worth out of it in damage dealt or advantage felt, I will try and make it useful for a couple of games, I find I end up using it as a glorified Kubelwagon until its swarmed by the blob.

T70 generally comes too late. You can use guards or penals with ptrs in buidings, since luchs does next to zero damage to Garrisons.

You can also use the community defense doctrine with the little 45 mm at gun. Also

Otherwise than that, you don't have that many options apart from munitions.

you guys keep forgetting about guards, they can keep the Luchs from going all in and also button it for an easy kill with two guards squads.

if you dont opt for only penals you have to get guards to properly counter a luchs, its the only way.

combine a guards squad with an AT gun and you got an easy kill.

combining cons with AT nades with guards or an AT gun works great too

you guys keep forgetting about guards, they can keep the Luchs from going all in and also button it for an easy kill with two guards squads.

if you dont opt for only penals you have to get guards to properly counter a luchs, its the only way.

combine a guards squad with an AT gun and you got an easy kill.

combining cons with AT nades with guards or an AT gun works great too

so your going for no mines, no flame, no penals, does that mean a tier 2 start with cons? thats a lot of ammo your using to upgrade guards and have enough available for button, how many maxims and cons would you lead with? how many guards could you have by six minutes if you are forking out 320 mp for an at gun? .. I have found tier 2 start to be weak since both maxims and cons have been heavily nerfed in fact guards have also been nerfed, any thoughts on this idea? .. this seems like the old school Soviet meta, does it still work with all the nerfs and added costs associated with it?

so your going for no mines, no flame, no penals, does that mean a tier 2 start with cons? thats a lot of ammo your using to upgrade guards and have enough available for button, how many maxims and cons would you lead with? how many guards could you have by six minutes if you are forking out 320 mp for an at gun? .. I have found tier 2 start to be weak since both maxims and cons have been heavily nerfed in fact guards have also been nerfed, any thoughts on this idea? .. this seems like the old school Soviet meta, does it still work with all the nerfs and added costs associated with it?

Tier 2 was an optional suggestion, not a must. Ive killed luchs with guards several times.

I like going cons w/ ppsh against OKW, and if you have 3-4 con squads by the time of the luchs, AT nades+zis OR a guards squad (combined arms has ppsh+guards) oughta do it. One of the few things cons are better at than the other mainlines is snaring vehicles thanks to their squad size. That said I don't think 3-4 cons is viable atm UNLESS you have gone a ppsh commander.

Soviet is most MP bleed faction in early game, get AT gun or 2 squad of guards its a huge investion and its not easy, coz you line infatry if its not penals will be lose to volks with kubel or sturmpio.
You can counter with penals, with guards, with at guns and another stuff. But its dosnt mean that OKW snow ball are fine. When you play vs OKW you must pray about mistakes from opponent just to be in game, not win.

I like going cons w/ ppsh against OKW, and if you have 3-4 con squads by the time of the luchs, AT nades+zis OR a guards squad (combined arms has ppsh+guards) oughta do it. One of the few things cons are better at than the other mainlines is snaring vehicles thanks to their squad size. That said I don't think 3-4 cons is viable atm UNLESS you have gone a ppsh commander.

I take it you mean a mixed arms con-maxim start game? or do you just build cons until a few minutes into the game, just wondering how you hold back the initial rush.

Soviet is most MP bleed faction in early game, get AT gun or 2 squad of guards its a huge investion and its not easy, coz you line infatry if its not penals will be lose to volks with kubel or sturmpio.
You can counter with penals, with guards, with at guns and another stuff. But its dosnt mean that OKW snow ball are fine. When you play vs OKW you must pray about mistakes from opponent just to be in game, not win.

totally agree, your hoping for lower player skill, if all is equal you are pretty screwed.

tried a few suggestions, I actually killed his luchs with a zis, but only because he sort of left it killing a garrisoned dshk while i deflected his attention somewhere else, we harrased each others fuel so I got out a sherman and T70, while he had PIV and racketen, I then got his flak truck, sadly he then popped out a King Tiger so it was pretty much gg, I lost the Sherman but after a long wait got another one, that sherman had his king tiger on the ropes but then the game ended at 35 minutes, he was a pretty bad player, especially with infantry, for instance I managed to blow 3 squads up with a single satchel charge, but in usual OKW fashion he just kept them coming, I did try harrasing with M3 at the start, but it never really did anything until a flame engineer was inside and then it got hit by a racketen, it lasted a minute or two.

thank you all for your responses,here are my thoughts on them, unlike cons penals cant build sandbags and come out later, they are outnumbered until you have 3 squads, the early game advantage goes to grens until you have three penal squads, I generally find OKW have better map control than I do if I go tier 1. I have tried mines but then I cant use ammo based counters such as PTRS and sticky satchels, the last game I was base raided by the luchs after retreating, this was 6 minutes in, I had only laid two mines and got a flamer to dislodge garrisoned units, one mine had already been hit by grens, you have to be very lucky to have a luchs hit a mine, maybe its the map control problem more than the luchs, I need to try and stall the early rush that makes the luchs attack so early, I will revisit the M3 scout car, although like the 2 engineer start it slows down production of the three penals and ties up the engineer to repair duties rather than point capping, maybe im just bad with that unit, but I have rarely got my money's worth out of it in damage dealt or advantage felt, I will try and make it useful for a couple of games, I find I end up using it as a glorified Kubelwagon until its swarmed by the blob.

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  (aℬuse) Rutra5214

  LimaOscarMike

  example for GenMe thread and some advice for me would be g8

  by: LimaOscarMike map: Langreskaya

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here are some example of how M3 can be a big threat by timing hope that help with M3

I take it you mean a mixed arms con-maxim start game? or do you just build cons until a few minutes into the game, just wondering how you hold back the initial rush.

If I can I get up 3 cons, grab molly tech, and then I grab t2, sometimes getting a 4th con squad before building it. PPshs as soon as I can too. AT nades as the Luchs arrives or as I can spot an early mech hq.

AT partisans are the most effective counter. Especially on a map with many garrisons.

I don't really have a problem with luchs. It was nerfed last patch and it is not that potent vs infantry as it used to be. The way I deal with it is to simply ignore engagements with it. If you go hardcore penals meta then get PTRS on one squad (or call in guards) as a deterrent until you tech up to t3/t4.
If you are creative with mine placement and your PTRS unit positioning is reasonable, you should be able to knock out luchs pretty easily. Especially so if the opponent goes nuts with it.

I don't really have a problem with luchs. It was nerfed last patch and it is not that potent vs infantry as it used to be. The way I deal with it is to simply ignore engagements with it. If you go hardcore penals meta then get PTRS on one squad (or call in guards) as a deterrent until you tech up to t3/t4.
If you are creative with mine placement and your PTRS unit positioning is reasonable, you should be able to knock out luchs pretty easily. Especially so if the opponent goes nuts with it.

you play mostly team games though, its more prevalent in 1v1, it rapes early, you wouldn't have been able to lay many mine, maybe 1 or 2 and for anything like the odd ptrs to work your opponent would have to be asleep, how do you ignore engagements with it? retreat and have it re-direct to your next until everything has retreated?

you play mostly team games though, its more prevalent in 1v1, it rapes early, you wouldn't have been able to lay many mine, maybe 1 or 2 and for anything like the odd ptrs to work your opponent would have to be asleep, how do you ignore engagements with it? retreat and have it re-direct to your next until everything has retreated?

Doesn't matter what game mode it is tbh. It's about unit positioning and mine baiting. You are going to have problems with it if you blob up your penals and a-move them. You will just have to mass retreat 'em all.
However, if you spread them across the map, luchs is going to be able to engage only one squad at the time. At that point it is highly susceptible to be baited. Watch some VonIvan replays, his baiting skills are off the charts.

Also, I didn't say PTRS is hard counter to luchs. It is a deterrent to buy you some time to tech. However if you manage to bait it into mine, you can kill it with PTRS squad.