Login

russian armor

Crossroads by WhiteFlashReborn

17 Aug 2017, 09:03 AM
#61
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2017, 08:11 AMzarok47




Let's look at some math.
2 strat points equals 5 fuel and 11 muni


:huhsign:

2 Strat Points gives a Player 5 fuel and 11 muni?!

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2017, 08:11 AMzarok47


Average game lasts about 15-20 minutes, but due to the lay-out of the vps, 20-25 minute matches are normal on crossoads.
For sake of simplicity, I go for a 20 minute match.

Leaving us with 100 fuel and 220 muni extra in a match on crossroads vs a match on a map with normal points.



Should'nt you think about it, that both side get only 1 more strat Point? Why you say that 1 Player gets both?!

It'S the same like with 10 strat Points. If you say 1 Player is better so he gets 2 more strat Points. It does no matter.


17 Aug 2017, 13:16 PM
#62
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587


2 Strat Points gives a Player 5 fuel and 11 muni?!


Should'nt you think about it, that both side get only 1 more strat Point? Why you say that 1 Player gets both?!

It'S the same like with 10 strat Points. If you say 1 Player is better so he gets 2 more strat Points. It does no matter.


It was to give context to the amount of extra resources poured into an average game on crossroads...

You have also missed where i explain what averse effects there can be from extra resources, would you kindly go back and read it? Because else i keep explaining over and over again how extra muni leads to a devaluation of choice between upgrades and grenades (among other things) and quite frankly, im getting tired of it (and it has nothing to do with what player controls the strat points).

I've also still not seen a reason why 2 extra strat points is a good thing, would you kindly give one aswell?
17 Aug 2017, 13:44 PM
#63
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

I don't think there is anywhere a fundamental reason why a 12-point map would fail where a 10-point map would work (I've seen a lot of terrible 10-point maps, whereas crossroads is an objectively good 12-point map; right?). However, I know for a fact that a 12-point map would discourage call-in meta more efficiently than a 10-point map.

The reason why a high-resource map wouldn't work well are rooted in the poor state of balance. A 12-point map doesn't create imbalance. It takes core-game imbalances (e.g., unit pricing imbalances) and magnifies them to the point that you'd have to be blind to ignore them (or only play competitive 1v1 in tournament maps).

In effect, a 12-point map is the best leverage we (the unofficial maintenance crew) can have to ask for flushing out the last remaining shit-stains of late-game balance. e.g.,:
- Repair speed imbalances (those make a world of difference when you have a large amount of tanks)
- Poor unit pricing (e.g., OKW P4/P5 cost same amount of manpower as OST P4/P5, but are worlds apart)
- Ridiculous popcap values (especially after critical mass has been achieved)
- Ridiculous off-map abilities, which you will see more often (e.g., Arty-Cover of yesteryear and, now, JU-87)
- Factions that have no useful ways of burning excess munitions/fuel (e.g., for Soviets, except for demo-charge spam)

Those imbalances are there. And, while 12-point maps will exaggerate those imbalances, it's not the map that created them. It's pure balancing oversight (and a myopic scope, of course).

So. In my opinion, unless the map poses significant issues that make it unplayable in the forseeable future (e.g., after FBP hits), don't ask the map-maker to make it yet another copy-paste of the same map. A map with resource inflation means you have to provision for a higher frequency of vehicles and abilities. That's great; it makes it not feel like every other 1v1 map out there.

- - - -

I understand that over the years, there have been some mapping guidelines, do's and don'ts for mapmakers to follow in order for their maps to be considered successful.

Those guidelines, however, are not the Bible or anything. A good creative process is taking those guidelines and (after mastering them) start bending them to elicit a particular type of playstyle.

Moreover, those guidelines are not infallible either. They're an educated guess of what seems to be a good idea based on previous trials of those ideas. However, balance changes, and the same guidelines may no longer apply.

For instance:

Elevation
- Everybody knows that adding elevation on hotspot areas is bad, because tank projectiles tend to collide with the terrain, right?
- Well, wrong; we can fix projectiles by making them ignore said elevation, and it's all good. We can also select which units should have projectiles that should ignore elevation or not. With those changes, elevation makes it so that the specialists perform better than the generalists in their intended role.

Garrisons
- Everybody knows that you should avoid garrisons at chokepoints at all costs, right?
- Well, wrong. Garrisons have evolved to become cancerous over the years, and that status has only been solidified by adding the insta-hop-in/out system.

Map geometry
- Everybody knows that FRPs make long-maps imbalanced, right?
- Well, FRPs are changing

Long, narrow corridors
- Everybody knows that you should avoid long corridors like the plague, right?
- While this is mostly true, the primary reason for this is live-version walking stuka. However the stuka is getting fixed.
19 Aug 2017, 11:51 AM
#64
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

Start position 1



Start position 2.



As i stated earlier, start position 2 is at a disadvantage due to confined space, shot blockers and elevation. This primarily a bigger issue for ost than other factions.

It is significantly easier to position units and transition from side to side if you start in position1. The shed opposite the house is in an awkward spot for the defender and the fence near the cut off is a giant pain in the arse when it comes to positioning and soft retreating team weapons.

Position 2 should have some kind of tactical advantage to compensate for the confined space and extra indestructible objects, ie woods stacks.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Sweden 72
Netherlands 16
Germany 757
Russian Federation 177
unknown 4

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

696 users are online: 696 guests
3 posts in the last 24h
3 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48731
Welcome our newest member, may88forex
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM