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How to handle Sturmpio/kubel rush on cutoff?

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Joshua85
3 Jul 2017, 13:49 PM
#1
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I've been raking my head on how to best counter this strategy, so now I ask the ever helpful people of the forum once again :)

I mainly face this issue on Crossroads (where the cutoff is particularly exposed) playing as brits, but I imagine most allied factions would face similar (or worse) problems in the opening game.

Basically the OKW opens with building 1-2 kubels and rush them + sturmpio at the opponents cutoff. the first kubel and sturmpio arrives almost simultaneously and require a concerted effort of all your men to push off. Meanwhile the OKW opponent is happily capping away with newly spawned volks and putting the OKW player ahead. After the first rush you can potentially reinforce the area with mines and sandbags, but even in the best of circumstances you have been set back and need to spend the rest of the early game trying to catch up.

When done right the OKW also gets away mostly unscathed with a couple of damaged kubels that just needs to be fixed, whilst the allied player is paying in manpower to replenish lost men. Soviets and UKF can push out a scout car or UC to circumvent this, but this will effectively limit their capping potential, which is becomming ever more vital at this point. USF however, may be even more screwed as, outside a single commander, they have no opening veichle counter, no at-grenade before vet 1, and it takes a while for them to get out (non-doctrinal) mines.

In this post I'm asking specifically with regards to UKF, but if there are any genereal tips I would appreciate them as well :)

Best regards.
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Dangerous-Cloth
3 Jul 2017, 14:05 PM
#2
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Getting a vickers or a universal carrier does the trick for me. I usually put my tommies inside a garrison if the cut of provides for it. The tommies focus on a kubel together with the vickers or a UC. This will overpower one kubel and force it away. Then repeat it with the second or with the sturmpios. By this time your 2nd tommie squad should arrive and you can push out.

A UKF start is slow anyway, better make sure it is a safe start.

Kappa
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__deleted__
3 Jul 2017, 15:17 PM
#3
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Focus elsewhere. If his forces are near your cut off, his part of map is opened for your IS and vickers (only 2 vilka should be there)

Also providing us a replay, where this happens can greatly help us, so we can see your common mistakes better and give you a superb review on your play ;)
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LoopDloop
3 Jul 2017, 16:46 PM
#4
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UC would help all around in thesee situations.
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ArnoLaz
3 Jul 2017, 17:39 PM
#5
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UC is a must vs OKW, especialy vs double kubels, just dont rush it too close vs sturms, and it will be safe, cause only threat is raketen, but if u force OKW to build rak, u should win in early infrantry engagemtns. When u have equiped it with vickers upgrade hunt down kubels mercilecly and make enemy bleed out their mp, kinda same as kubels do vs u. Be carefull of raks though, if u can manage to let it live long enough, okw player will be so pissed off, that he will send luchs after your uc, be ready = put mines, make fast aec, and profit.
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Joshua85
4 Jul 2017, 16:06 PM
#6
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2017, 15:17 PM__deleted__
Focus elsewhere. If his forces are near your cut off, his part of map is opened for your IS and vickers (only 2 vilka should be there)

Also providing us a replay, where this happens can greatly help us, so we can see your common mistakes better and give you a superb review on your play ;)


Thanks for the solid advice all around. For my game I think that I should probably have followed Hectors advice and pushed elsewhere.

Unfortunately I forgot to save a replay from this one, but at the end of the day I lost the game by being outplayed by a surperior (lvl 16 or 17) opponent.

In my current situation of being above 30, having a full time job as well as wife and a kid, I must come to accept that I have natural limitations in this game, when I at best have time to put in 4-5 matches a week often playing against people half my age and with twice the amount of experience.

I don't think my micro is getting much better than it currently is, so I try to work around this by improving my macro, using the strat map and crunch the numbers in some serious theorycrafting.

It has really paid off, lifting me from an average 1v1 player at level 7-8 a year ago to a level 11-12 player with all factions (except USF who I don't really play). Currently I'm still winning a lot more than I'm loosing against players at the same level, so I expect that I can probably go one or two levels higher with most factions, but from then on the gates will be closed as it takes a natural talent above and beyond what can be studied :)
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Luciano
4 Jul 2017, 16:49 PM
#7
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You can also put trenches in strategic points as cut offs and muni/fuel points
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DAZ187
4 Jul 2017, 16:52 PM
#8
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UC, WC51 and M3. is a must vs okw kubel rush :snfPeter:
1. Relic bans, not me. 2. It stands in the rules: If you are banned more often, the duration increase and can lead in the end to permaban 3. The Case is bigger as you guys think. So pls step 1 step away pls. 4. I am not a player in the 4vs4 cup, because of RL work.
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Joshua85
4 Jul 2017, 17:56 PM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2017, 16:49 PMLuciano
You can also put trenches in strategic points as cut offs and muni/fuel points


That's a good point.

The only argument I would make against it is that it would require you to have predicted the rush before it happened. As soon as the ball is rolling, it is unlikely that you have the time for it.

Heck, on crossroads I'm not even sure they would have time to finish it before the first wave rolls in.
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Luciano
4 Jul 2017, 18:03 PM
#10
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2017, 17:56 PMJoshua85


That's a good point.

The only argument I would make against it is that it would require you to have predicted the rush before it happened. As soon as the ball is rolling, it is unlikely that you have the time for it.

Heck, on crossroads I'm not even sure they would have time to finish it before the first wave rolls in.


I dont know if you can finish a trench before the rush but it is always useful to put trenches in points, not only to prevent rushes

I guess if you rush the point with the first infantry section u will be able to finish before he comes
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__deleted__
4 Jul 2017, 18:07 PM
#11
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2017, 18:03 PMLuciano


I dont know if you can finish a trench before the rush but it is always useful to put trenches in points, not only to prevent rushes

I guess if you rush the point with the first infantry section u will be able to finish before he comes


Are trenches useful against OKW ?
It´s always the same for me. I hop into a trench, they throw incing nade, close in and I have to retreat with my IS, because his volks upgrade with STG´s are already near my IS and there isn´t any cover except a burning trench nearby :/
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Luciano
4 Jul 2017, 18:15 PM
#12
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2017, 18:07 PM__deleted__


Are trenches useful against OKW ?
It´s always the same for me. I hop into a trench, they throw incing nade, close in and I have to retreat with my IS, because his volks upgrade with STG´s are already near my IS and there isn´t any cover except a burning trench nearby :/


Trenches are useful against okw and ostheer, they are annoying, they provide really good cover and the enemy cant hop in, if you are fighting behind cover and they throw you an incendiary nade you can hop into the trench, same backwards, if you are in the trench you can hop out and get behind cover. Not only you delay the enemy advance but you make him spending his munitions. Trenches are not only good defensive tools but also offensive, you can put the trench in enemy cutoffs and resources points. If the volks with stgs are close to your infantry section you have to retreat anyways, with or without trench, trenches are other way to protect your troops and a good time waster for your enemy because they need to destroy them at some point.

Ill give an example, while he rushes your cutoff with all his units at the start, you can use your 2nd ifantry section and rush his fuel and put a trench while you hold the cutoff with your other is and wait to the other units to arrive.

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__deleted__
4 Jul 2017, 18:23 PM
#13
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2017, 18:15 PMLuciano


Trenches are useful against okw and ostheer, they are annoying, they provide really good cover and the enemy cant hop in, if you are fighting behind cover and they throw you an incendiary nade you can hop into the trench, same backwards, if you are in the trench you can hop out and get behind cover. Not only you delay the enemy advance but you make him spending his munitions. Trenches are not only good defensive tools but also offensive, you can put the trench in enemy cutoffs and resources points. If the volks with stgs are close to your infantry section you have to retreat anyways, with or without trench, trenches are other way to protect your troops and a good time waster for your enemy because they need to destroy them at some point.

Ill give an example, while he rushes your cutoff with all his units at the start, you can use your 2nd ifantry section and rush his fuel and put a trench while you hold the cutoff with your other is and wait to the other units to arrive.



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