Playing as USF is unfun anymore

Also hurts that the Jackson can be so mediocre to below average at times.

its 135 fuel turreted tank destroyer that excels at fighting all armors including super heavies like the kt, it does not suck. The only reason id consider is "media core" is because of its low health and Armour.

IMO the Sherman is still a really good tank, its super versatile, but its lack of good support units causes it to flop sometimes

And it seems like when I make shermans I regret not spamming jacksons instead to deal with panthers and the like.

its 135 fuel turreted tank destroyer that excels at fighting all armors including super heavies like the kt, it does not suck. The only reason id consider is "media core" is because of its low health and Armour.

Those two downfalls make it very map dependent sometimes though, like most tank destroyers. Problem is, USF doesn't have any alternatives of that caliber (no pun intended) except for the Pershing, which is doctrinal.

And it seems like when I make shermans I regret not spamming jacksons instead to deal with panthers and the like.

I think we all can feel that, but with good micro and maybe some lucky zooks or 57mm pen on a panther a sherman could take it out. Its hard a shit to do sometimes though

I kinda wish Rifle Company (Correct me if im wrong on this, haven't used the commander in a while at not up to snuff on the meta) wasn't so weak so the E8s could make a comeback, that tank kinda filled some roles that USF is missing rn.

The m20 is really good at stopping luchs. You just lay a mine in the right part, discreetly. If you get spotted, then might as well cancel. I actually use infantry company in 4s. I've heard people get upset at me for doing so, yet I end up with the better stats at the end, or at least respectable stats. The preist is really good at hammering slow heavy armor, especially if there was a way to make heavy armor stop completely and take all 6 shells.

I can't find any info on this latest patch (not the Winter balance?), but these past few games, I've been having 4-5 man squad wipes as USF from single shot tank hits.

I can't find any info on this latest patch (not the Winter balance?), but these past few games, I've been having 4-5 man squad wipes as USF from single shot tank hits.

Depends on what you get shot by and if you're leaving garrisons, light cover, etc.

On Sherman E8, that thing will destroy other mediums thanks to having both a higher health pool, armour, and very good penetration. It can even threaten heavier tanks at shorter distances. It's mainly the rest of the doctrine affecting it.

I think we all can feel that, but with good micro and maybe some lucky zooks or 57mm pen on a panther a sherman could take it out. Its hard a shit to do sometimes though

I kinda wish Rifle Company (Correct me if im wrong on this, haven't used the commander in a while at not up to snuff on the meta) wasn't so weak so the E8s could make a comeback, that tank kinda filled some roles that USF is missing rn.

Like Airborne, Relic chose to make Rifle almost useless by nerfing the good units down to feeble amounts. Agreed, the E8 used to fill some gaps, now it's feels like a Sherman-lite.

Depends on what you get shot at and if you're leaving garrisons, light cover, etc.

They were moving around (because axis gets to squish nearly with every tank) or toward the tank to get in zook range. Never from garrison.

..

Oh yeah, I love the E8 its a great tank, but its not good enough to make up for the rest of the Doc which is lackluster at most.

Kinda bias to claim that without taking in Account the better scatter on vet 1 and most important: usf mortars (vs ost) has sqishy 4 man models as targets which makes a huge increase in lethality (dont even take into Account that ost is in need of Support weapon play which got totally countered)
Defending the old op usf mortar haha

it is not the first time you use the 4 man squad arguments, yet, when OST mortar hit the field, it is facing 4 mans squads RE, 4 man squads UKF tommies, 4 man squad UKF sappers, 4 man squads SU engineers, and so on....


Just in case you think that, NO, not defending the old OP USF mortar, but your argument to explain why OST mortar must be a especial snowflake is really poor.....

it is not the first time you use the 4 man squad arguments, yet, when OST mortar hit the field, it is facing 4 mans squads RE, 4 man squads UKF tommies, 4 man squad UKF sappers, 4 man squads SU engineers, and so on...

[...]

... 2 man Soviet Sniper Team, which dies to a single mortar round even at full HP, unlike Ost one...

it is not the first time you use the 4 man squad arguments, yet, when OST mortar hit the field, it is facing 4 mans squads RE, 4 man squads UKF tommies, 4 man squad UKF sappers, 4 man squads SU engineers, and so on....


Just in case you think that, NO, not defending the old OP USF mortar, but your argument to explain why OST mortar must be a especial snowflake is really poor.....

It is my only argument, and if that's so poor you suggest nerfing it or buffing usf mortar to ostheers again? Is that what you try to tell me ? (Despite the fact that RE gets a 5th man thru vet, royals and infantry sections gets 5th via tech. Ok Russian engineers are 4 man but there is only 1 on the field while there are about 3 squads of mainline infantry with 6 models each for the Russians. .

It is my only argument, and if that's so poor you suggest nerfing it or buffing usf mortar to ostheers again? Is that what you try to tell me ? (Despite the fact that RE gets a 5th man thru vet, royals and infantry sections gets 5th via tech. Ok Russian engineers are 4 man but there is only 1 on the field while there are about 3 squads of mainline infantry with 6 models each for the Russians. .

I only try to tell you that pointing this argument does not offer any help to this discussion,due to being wrong inmho as there are plenty of 4 man squads in the allied roster in the early-mid game, so if there are no others arguments, maybe it is better to post nothing that post something that is wrong.

and yes, I know some of those units can get a 5th man, but at the time you can get that 5th model, the advantage that OST mortar offers has already been enjoyed by OST player...We have to look at the whole picture....


and lastly, just to clarify my opinion so you don´t waste a new post saying I want to buff USF mortar or nerf OST mortar --> NO, I not asking for changes in those units at this moment.

... 2 man Soviet Sniper Team, which dies to a single mortar round even at full HP, unlike Ost one...

yep, but but but cons are 6 man squads!!! (pfussies say hi!)

Really ? try playing against soviet and see how fun it is. Your vet 3 gren that you tried hard to keep alive all game and you love so much gets pulverized by any noob clicking on a fking button. Dushkas pin you in heavy cover and unkillable snipers making your already useless gren into more useless against fking gulag prisoners without any training. Yeah this game is a treat lol. See you all in 2020. There are many better games out there who don't affect your nervous system like this crap.

Really ? try playing against soviet and see how fun it is. Your vet 3 gren that you tried hard to keep alive all game and you love so much gets pulverized by any noob clicking on a fking button. Dushkas pin you in heavy cover and unkillable snipers making your already useless gren into more useless against fking gulag prisoners without any training. Yeah this game is a treat lol. See you all in 2020. There are many better games out there who don't affect your nervous system like this crap.

How does the Lend Lease Doctrine (which you are referring to here?) kill vet3 grens with "one click"? Please enlighten me. Soviet snipers are not unkillable either. Get a OST Sniper to vet 1 and double-tap, flank, 222, infiltration units etc. If you can´t kill a sniper it´s a L2P issue.

Dshk is a doctrinal 2CP 300MP MG with a narrow cone. Of course it´s going to surpress you, what did you expect? Nobody had a problem with the Dshk before Maxims got nerfed. Now all of a sudden it is super OP and needs to be nerfed along with the entire Lend-Lease doctrine. Makes no sense, you can´t just nerf all soviet units and offer nothing in return.

How does the Lend Lease Doctrine (which you are referring to here?) kill vet3 grens with "one click"? Please enlighten me. Soviet snipers are not unkillable either. Get a OST Sniper to vet 1 and double-tap, flank, 222, infiltration units etc. If you can´t kill a sniper it´s a L2P issue.

Dshk is a doctrinal 2CP 300MP MG with a narrow cone. Of course it´s going to surpress you, what did you expect? Nobody had a problem with the Dshk before Maxims got nerfed. Now all of a sudden it is super OP and needs to be nerfed along with the entire Lend-Lease doctrine. Makes no sense, you can´t just nerf all soviet units and offer nothing in return.

Halt mal den Ball flach. Der Tonfall ist völlig deplaziert, und "L2P"-Empfehlungen wirken angesichts deiner distinguierten Karriere in diesem Spiel jetzt auch geringfügig unangebracht. Das nur am Rande.
As for "one clicks", he is of course referring to demos.
Soviet snipers are quite difficult to kill with OH. Scout cars are in fact quite poorly suited to killing them since they receive an accuracy penalty vs them and have limited dps on the move. OH has no infiltration units save for Storms that require a lengthy 100 muni upgrade to produce any dps. It is not like Grens excel at flanking duties either. The best competitive players in this game struggle to deal with Soviet snipers on open maps. Dshks are the best machinegun in the game by a long shot as a combination of their setup time, damage output and suppression value, and people had problems with them well before Maxims got nerfed. The reason they were not played as much beforehand is simply that overall, the Maxim build was stronger and more versatile.

Halt mal den Ball flach. Der Tonfall ist völlig deplaziert, und "L2P"-Empfehlungen wirken angesichts deiner distinguierten Karriere in diesem Spiel jetzt auch geringfügig unangebracht. Das nur am Rande.
As for "one clicks", he is of course referring to demos.
Soviet snipers are quite difficult to kill with OH. Scout cars are in fact quite poorly suited to killing them since they receive an accuracy penalty vs them and have limited dps on the move. OH has no infiltration units save for Storms that require a lengthy 100 muni upgrade to produce any dps. It is not like Grens excel at flanking duties either. The best competitive players in this game struggle to deal with Soviet snipers on open maps. Dshks are the best machinegun in the game by a long shot as a combination of their setup time, damage output and suppression value, and people had problems with them well before Maxims got nerfed. The reason they were not played as much beforehand is simply that overall, the Maxim build was stronger and more versatile.

Uh... I'm not sure, but aren't 222s get accuracy bonus against snipers, just like Kubel, M3A1, M20 and other "scout class" light vehicles? I think I've read this in some changelog like year ago.

Halt mal den Ball flach. Der Tonfall ist völlig deplaziert, und "L2P"-Empfehlungen wirken angesichts deiner distinguierten Karriere in diesem Spiel jetzt auch geringfügig unangebracht. Das nur am Rande.
As for "one clicks", he is of course referring to demos.
Soviet snipers are quite difficult to kill with OH. Scout cars are in fact quite poorly suited to killing them since they receive an accuracy penalty vs them and have limited dps on the move. OH has no infiltration units save for Storms that require a lengthy 100 muni upgrade to produce any dps. It is not like Grens excel at flanking duties either. The best competitive players in this game struggle to deal with Soviet snipers on open maps. Dshks are the best machinegun in the game by a long shot as a combination of their setup time, damage output and suppression value, and people had problems with them well before Maxims got nerfed. The reason they were not played as much beforehand is simply that overall, the Maxim build was stronger and more versatile.

Don´t tell me how to act. You are not a mod. Nothing that I wrote was offensive or insulting. So calm down. COH2.org is not a place to write German either since I´m sure everyone wants to understand what ppl say.

The best competitive players also struggle to kill OST snipers and british snipers because they play against top-tier players who are great at sniper micro. If you watch GCS you will see that snipers usually prove to be a good investment no matter whether they are soviet, OST or british.

I thought he was strictly referring to Land Lease since he was talking about Dshk so I admit Demos do kill squads with "one click". Teller mines do the same to LV and you dont even need to press a button. Both things should be changed in some way as they are too cheesy. Teller mines are ok against medium and heavy tanks but are too OP imo against LV.

Anyways, Soviets were nerfed hard recently yet ppl whine and complain about them. Maxims were totally overnerfed to the point of being borderline useless. Penals got their flamers taken away and replaced with PTRS. Guard rifles got overnerfed (almost no one uses them anymore). People complain about the Soviet meta but don´t realize that there is really no other option unless Conscripts get buffed. Dshk might be a bit too strong at the moment but it needs to remain strong after it gets nerfed, otherwise it´s just going to be another useless Soviet unit. Who will get a 2CP 300MP MG that isn´t better than it´s T0 counterparts? The list of Soviet units that are useless is long enough already, we dont need another one.

Uh... I'm not sure, but aren't 222s get accuracy bonus against snipers, just like Kubel, M3A1, M20 and other "scout class" light vehicles? I think I've read this in some changelog like year ago.

I am not a hundred percent sure, so take it with a grain of salt, but on checking, according to this:
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=sdkfz_222_kwk38_20mm__mp
There seems to be a considerable ( 0.5) negative damage multiplier. Not accuracy, mind you, but damage. Then again, upon selecting a specific target, in this case the sniper team, here:
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/selecttarget.php?callback=weapon&filename=sdkfz_222_kwk38_20mm__mp
It seems that the sniper team individual models receive a slight (0.15)target size increase. This is however only addressing the main gun, not the coax.
So make of that what you will. In any case, from practical experience, of having my snipers chased by 222s and chasing them, between your unspectacular dps output and terrain obstructing autocannon shots etc you simply rarely if ever will generate enough damage to kill a retreating full health team on a 1v1 sized map. Outliers of course notwithstanding.

I never said I was a mod, so I don't see why you would bring that up. I am telling you to tone it down because you have exhibited a pattern of downright bellicose and immature behaviour in the past, and it won't serve you well. Whatever.
As for the balance, well, I am out of here. The GCS statistics kinda speak for themselves to people who can get past the fanboyismo.