Replacing Cons with Guards

Hello! I have one, simply question. Is it profitable, to replace conscripts with guards? Guards with LMG are much more universal than conscripts (even upgraded). I think, 3 guard squads (all LMG upgrade) can easly button and kill PZ 4 (i remember when i kill King Tiger with 2 Guards squads ) and they can still fight with infantry as well. So what you guys think? Is it good idea or not?

What do you mean? like replace them as the primary non-doctrinal front line infantry? Or as a doctrinal strategy?

If I understand correctly you are asking whether it is a viable strategy to skip conscripts and go for guards in stead correct?

If so, then I guess the answer is yes. But seeing that you won't be able to push out guards untill you reach 2 cp, you will need something to replace conscripts through the early game.

Here the most classic alternative to cons would be penals, who perform better vs infantry and has the ability to become quite competent counters to armor as well. on the flip side their abilities sort of overlap with guards.

another option would be engineers and maxims, which will force you into a more defensive game untill the guards come out.

So in short it is certainly possible, but this begs the question whether it is sensible to build your core around guards and this I am not so certain of.

Guards are great all-rounders, but they are expensive to buy and reinforce, so spamming them will leave you really starved for manpower.

My personal recommandation would therefore be to use a couple of them as supporting units rather than going for a complete reliance on them as core infantry.

But why not try it out and see if it works? If I learned anything about this game it is that it keeps surprising me how many experimental strategies that turn out to be viable

Maybe try going for 2/3 engineers, one conscript and T1 tech then for an M3 (to put an engineer with a flamers in), then maybe a sniper, depending on the map.

Hold out until 2cp where you can call in guards. You will probably build up a lot of manpower doing this so it might be a good idea to get medics while you wait for CP's.

Then call in 3 guards squads as you get the manpower.

Then tech to, and get a t70. (you have the AT in the guards so the T70 should be able to survive and work well even if late.

then whatever, dependent of which guard doc etc, but T34-76's spammed are always good.

This wont be the most effective way to play soviets but, it might work and it might be fun.

Also i see you are pretty new and you only have 3 posts, so i looked at them. I see you said you played mostly Ost, 4v4. Is this for a team game strat? Are you branching out into the rest of the game? If so welcome to more competitive play!

Maybe try going for 2/3 engineers, one conscript and T1 tech then for an M3 (to put an engineer with a flamers in), then maybe a sniper, depending on the map.

Hold out until 2cp where you can call in guards. You will probably build up a lot of manpower doing this so it might be a good idea to get medics while you wait for CP's.

Then call in 3 guards squads as you get the manpower.

Then tech to, and get a t70. (you have the AT in the guards so the T70 should be able to survive and work well even if late.

then whatever, dependent of which guard doc etc, but T34-76's spammed are always good.

This wont be the most effective way to play soviets but, it might work and it might be fun.

Also i see you are pretty new and you only have 3 posts, so i looked at them. I see you said you played mostly Ost, 4v4. Is this for a team game strat? Are you branching out into the rest of the game? If so welcome to more competitive play!

That actually sounds like an interesting strategy. I'm so bored of same ol' same ol' penal spam as soviets.

That actually sounds like an interesting strategy. I'm so bored of same ol' same ol' penal spam as soviets.

Thanks i was thinking of trying it myself Someone should made me a strategist Kappa.

Thanks i was thinking of trying it myself Someone should made me a strategist Kappa.

Damn fin you've made soviets fun again Tried out this strat and loved it. I've been going 2 engineers, 1 cos squad, 1 sniper, and 2-3 guards with guard motor for the 120mm, into rushed t34/76s and later 85s. It's wayyy more fun than penals/lend lease. I went clown car in one match as well and it worked well until it got raketen'd.

Damn fin you've made soviets fun again Tried out this strat and loved it. I've been going 2 engineers, 1 cos squad, 1 sniper, and 2-3 guards with guard motor for the 120mm, into rushed t34/76s and later 85s. It's wayyy more fun than penals/lend lease. I went clown car in one match as well and it worked well until it got raketen'd.

Yeah man, it can work! I still this it need refinement tho. I dont know if i could work a few team weapons in... Thing is the maxim is crap and going for it would delay the T-70. Maybe it would be worth for the AT gun and then going for a ISU, but that would mean really static play.

Going for all the tech could work as you would get a really versatile force, sniper, guards, mortar, maxim AT gun, T-70 then ISU. Problem is it would be SUPER manpower heavy...

•  
  

  1

  VS

  Insane DevM

  Finndeed

  Alternative soviet Strat

  by: Finndeed map: Road to Kharkov

  6

  -

•  
  

  0

  VS

  CrazyWahabbi

  Friendly5 <3

  Finndeeds Guardians

  by: Clockblocked map: Semoskiy

  1

  -

Tried it out myself to see how things would shake out on a low level. I never played soviets 1v1 and Finn has been a great help in other areas so I thought testing this build was the least I could do. In this replay I pull out a sloppy win against another low level OKW player on Semiosky Summer. Quite open to any suggestions on how I might tighten this build up or my soviet play for that matter. Thanks again for the idea Finn!

UNIVERSAL ANSWER TO THIS THREAD :

Wait for the next balance patch that will probably eventually fix conscripts.


Right now, using conscript is like shooting a bullet in your own foot and skiping them is as bad as using them because every faction need mainline infantry.

Guard (2CP) : too late
Engineer : Do i really need to say why an engineer squad is not made to be a mainline infantry ?
Maxim : Not supposed to be mainline infantry, not efficient to this goal since last nerf.
Partysans : partysans are the symbol of relic job in balancing coh2. They are overpowered in the 5 seconds you spawn them and then become useless in the 50 next minutes.

As you see, there is only 2 answer to the conscript issue :
1) use another faction until it (eventually) get fixed
2) GTFO of coh2

Thanks again for the idea Finn!

Anytime my man!

1) use another faction until it (eventually) get fixed
2) GTFO of coh2

Cons aren't as bad as you suggest, they dont scale sure but, they are fine in the early game. After that you need something else to take on the role of hard AI like a t-70 or call-in infantry. Soviets are actually doing really well in terms of winning, however that might be just that call-in Shermans are OP AF.

Yeah man, it can work! I still this it need refinement tho. I dont know if i could work a few team weapons in... Thing is the maxim is crap and going for it would delay the T-70. Maybe it would be worth for the AT gun and then going for a ISU, but that would mean really static play.

Going for all the tech could work as you would get a really versatile force, sniper, guards, mortar, maxim AT gun, T-70 then ISU. Problem is it would be SUPER manpower heavy...

•  
  

  1

  VS

  Insane DevM

  Finndeed

  Alternative soviet Strat

  by: Finndeed map: Road to Kharkov

  6

  -

Yeah and in my experience the maxim isn't even worth building. I was really hurting for suppression in one game though, we got beat by blobs. Is isu worth building? It would fit a guards heavy strategy, since guards are pretty static and long range as well (they get 2 mosins firing on the move lol).

Yeah and in my experience the maxim isn't even worth building. I was really hurting for suppression in one game though, we got beat by blobs. Is isu worth building? It would fit a guards heavy strategy, since guards are pretty static and long range as well (they get 2 mosins firing on the move lol).

I think the ISU works well because, yes as you said its long-range and it forces the other player to be aggressive, which works with guards defensiveness. It also works well (in theory) because in order to take the ISU out they have to dive, which is where the guards can plink away at their tanks and slow them down etc. That combo alone wont stop a good dive however.

ISU could also be good because this is a very manpower heavy strat and you might not be able to afford to spam t-34's.

Try experimenting with the Quad half-track behind guards/your line to stop too much blobbing.

Also Elephant can counter the ISU pretty easily and your guards wont be too effective vs that...

I think the ISU works well because, yes as you said its long-range and it forces the other player to be aggressive, which works with guards defensiveness. It also works well (in theory) because in order to take the ISU out they have to dive, which is where the guards can plink away at their tanks and slow them down etc. That combo alone wont stop a good dive however.

ISU could also be good because this is a very manpower heavy strat and you might not be able to afford to spam t-34's.

Try experimenting with the Quad half-track behind guards/your line to stop too much blobbing.

Also Elephant can counter the ISU pretty easily and your guards wont be too effective vs that...

Having played a few more games after the one I posted I feel like we may have a solid, non-meta build here with a bit of refinement.

The games I lost were quite one sided, unfortunately. Timing the flamer clowncar can be tricky, because you want the car to hit the field asap around the time you hit 60 munis. It needs a somewhat significant impact to hold you over to the T70 and Guards phase of the build. In my most significant loss, I loaded up and tried to retake my cutoff with the car, finding that my opponent spent the munis I spent on a flamer on a teller. I dont even think the paint was dry on that poor car. After that significant blow, I struggled to get my T70 out, quite late, due to poor fuel and map control, and ran it straight into another teller around the middle of the map. Lol!

Suffice to say, this build really struggles with mines and playing from behind it seems (probably any build has a hard time catching up after big losses).

However when youre ahead with this build youre really ahead. I found that with good impact from the flamer and T70 leaves you with just enough munitions to get DPmgs on the three (3 seemed like the best number, before adding a 120mm mortar and going into T34/85s.) Guards and enough space to plant a demo on the main MG nest your opponent uses. Blow it as soon as he pops back in and you can ride the 85s to a smooth win with the button ability along with mark target.

It seems the hardest part is actually getting to the guards without too heavy of losses to keep going. The sniper really helps, so id suggest getting one after the car to keep you in the game. A very agressive Ostheer is very hard to deal with, especially with mines. (Ost players - build mines and delay weapon upgrades, you wont regret it!)

Having played a few more games after the one I posted I feel like we may have a solid, non-meta build here with a bit of refinement.

I found the most difficult part keeping stuff alive in the early game as well. I'm a 1v1 player so it works out differently, but, the biggest challenge i have faced with it is Luche rush. Sometimes its fine if they get one and i have a good early game but if they get two i and/or i dont have a good early game i get ruined.

Yes i think 3 guards is optimal. I also think that going for an extra con might be needed on a urban map, hard to say.

It might work okay as is in team games but in 1v1, i deffo need to change it a bit.

I found the most difficult part keeping stuff alive in the early game as well. I'm a 1v1 player so it works out differently, but, the biggest challenge i have faced with it is Luche rush. Sometimes its fine if they get one and i have a good early game but if they get two i and/or i dont have a good early game i get ruined.

Yes i think 3 guards is optimal. I also think that going for an extra con might be needed on a urban map, hard to say.

It might work okay as is in team games but in 1v1, i deffo need to change it a bit.

I've played around with it in 1s and larger teamgames and it works pretty well in both. I've been using guards motor in teamgames for the 120mm because it absolutely wrecks blobs too. I think it is definitely very hard to keep stuff alive early game though. I really have to use pretty much all my forces in the same place because like 2-3 mosins barely beats 1 kar usually. Once guards start rolling, the game becomes a lot easier though. I tested the isu against an ai, and it seems pretty good. If I had the doctrine with guards and isu I would definitely contemplate making it in larger teamgames.