Panthers need adjustment

Really? I thought the Firefly was the slowest shooting tank in the game.

nope.

firefly never misses, has turrent, huge range, huge alpha dmg, a commander, vet very fast, has OP stun (remember: pak40 is not a mobile unit while shooting) so yeah...firefly has a huge advantage an high performanche..for its cheap cost...cover it and axis has big problem

Panther should be a copy-paste of the Firefly, with more frontal armour and more FU cost. Period!!!

Really? I thought the Firefly was the slowest shooting tank in the game.

Fireflies reload 8-8 seconds.
Panthers reload 5.8-6.4 seconds.

At vet 2 Fireflies drop to 6 seconds to reload.

At vet 3 Panthers drop to about 4-4.5 seconds to reload.

So a vet 2 firefly can reload faster than a subvet3 panther by RNG.

The difference is that Fireflies have 10 more range, way superior accuracy (and on the move) and 40 more damage. They get 80 more damage with vet3. (Vet 3 fireflies would've matched FBP Elefants and JTs for damage per shot.) They certainly don't have the armor and they don't have the health pool of the panther. But against panthers, that weakness is directly mitigated by their damage output.

Panthers get 10% more armor and 160 health at vet 2. Their faster reload is more than mitigated by their terrible accuracy.

A panther's chance to hit is more or less the Firefly's chance to penetrate. But when moving, a panther's chance to hit plummets and can expose its rear armor which a firefly will always penetrate. A moving firefly's chance to hit is much less impacted by moving accuracy and its own raw accuracy, and it's armor is always going to be penetrated by panthers.

Fireflies reload 8-8 seconds.
Panthers reload 5.8-6.4 seconds.

You sure about that? The numbers I got for 75mm kwk42 tell me 7.38 reload + 1.13 cooldown = 8,51 and 8.13 reload + 0.13 cooldown = 8,26 for 76mm sherman firefly. Cooldown is basically reload that doesn't get affected by any modifiers like vet or so.

Well I was wrong and mistyped the panther reload, it's 6.7 seconds max, not 6.4.

Cooldown is identical between panthers and fireflies: 0.

They both have an aim time and ready_aim_time of 0.125 seconds.

Where are you looking at numbers? I'm looking at the attribute editor in mod tools.

Should've said:
Fireflies reload 8-8 seconds.
Panthers reload 5.8-6.7 seconds.

OKW Panther is 6.1-6.4 seconds.

**edit

You're right, I was missing wind_down. Panthers have a 1 second wind down after firing. Fireflies do not.

This still doesn't quite give Panthers a longer reload time, but it certainly closes the gap, and makes vet 2 fireflies fire faster until the panther reaches vet 3.

Panther should be a copy-paste of the Firefly, with more frontal armour and more FU cost. Period!!!

Lol ok. That also means making it slow as fuck and no blitz and no armor vet buffs and way less health. I wouldn't use that instead of live panther but hey.

Lol ok. That also means making it slow as fuck and no blitz and no armor vet buffs and way less health. I wouldn't use that instead of live panther but hey.

For hunting and destroying tanks, I prefer Firefly rather that Panther. Everyday of the week. Even without blitz, armour buffs, speed, etc.

For hunting and destroying tanks, I prefer Firefly rather that Panther. Everyday of the week. Even without blitz, armour buffs, speed, etc.

Oh and absolutely 0 anti infantry performance. Sure, firefly is great at what it does, but it and panther fill different roles and you would get rekt trying to use it in he same way as many people use panthers. It's like saying, "volks should be more like soviet scout snipers". It just doesn't make sense.

make panther like firefly and p4 like cromwell. And all is fine.

Oh and absolutely 0 anti infantry performance. Sure, firefly is great at what it does, but it and panther fill different roles and you would get rekt trying to use it in he same way as many people use panthers. It's like saying, "volks should be more like soviet scout snipers". It just doesn't make sense.

Panther has almost 0 anti inf performance also. Which is the role of the Panther for you in this game? AT, AI, Cannon Fodder, ...

make panther like firefly and p4 like cromwell. And all is fine.

+1

+1

and IS-2 like KT and ISU like JT and SU-85 like JP4

and IS-2 like KT and ISU like JT and SU-85 like JP4

Sounds good. Wont need to play brits then

and IS-2 like KT and ISU like JT and SU-85 like JP4

So you want to nerf the SU85s pen and increase its price? :thinking:

So you want to nerf the SU85s pen and increase its price? :thinking:

for more health, stealth and a 150% damage bonus on first strike - all thanks to veterancy, yes

for more health, stealth and a 150% damage bonus on first strike - all thanks to veterancy, yes

So you want to give the SU85 Vet 5 in 3 stars of vet OpieOP

for more health, stealth and a 150% damage bonus on first strike - all thanks to veterancy, yes

Dont forget the 60%~ armour increase as well.

Ostheer Panther

Other things not mentioned by the FF and Panther shit debate. Panther has better speed and acceleration. FF has really slow turrent rotation and vehicle speed, IE you can run circles around it with a panther. FF is also vulnerable to ANY form of at its self. like INVISIBLE RAKATENS you can't see and can stealth through the lines for the cheese suprise.

You can easily bum rush a FF with a panther if it gets out of position.

OR stug spam, and jp4 work just fine as well does rakatens, paks, and any hand held form of AT.

The panther shit will never end until we make it the best tank in the game.

Already had to nerf the comet when it had far less AT capability than a panther but some how axis fanboys talked relic into believing it actually had even better AT than the panther. Plus comets supposed excellent AI also bullshit it misses most the time and when it does hit a squad it might gib one or 2 models tops. Now comet doesnt do anything well other than white phose support weps so now wonder you only see FFs in combo with cromwells, churchs, or centuars.

Panther has better speed and acceleration. FF has really slow turrent rotation and vehicle speed, IE you can run circles around it with a panther.

You can easily bum rush a FF with a panther if it gets out of position.

Ostheer Panther will never hit it on the move lol.