Tactical support regiment (aka Arty cover clutch)

That's not what I said. I said you should review the different aspects separately before making the conclusion on which one of those is making in OP, if any.

and thats the point. its not ONE OF THE ASPECTS, its ALL of them combined. therefore: this ability could be nerfed by raising its cost to 350 or whatever, by making it target a sector instead of a circle or by removing pin and debuff.
and what are you saying about "certain area"? is the area right now the certain area? or what?

Yes, and I didn't see a single example of this arty's circle preventing timely escape from it. It can be escaped from just like any other offmap ability.

if arty cover was only on the fuel point for example, it would have been WAY smaller and ALL arty covers would have had less effect.

and thats the point. its not ONE OF THE ASPECTS, its ALL of them combined. therefore: this ability could be nerfed by raising its cost to 350 or whatever, by making it target a sector instead of a circle or by removing pin and debuff.

But if it can be escaped from by simply moving units out of its circle, why should it be nerfed? If it prevented timely escape, then yes, it would be OP and would need cost increase/stat decrease/whatever, but after reviewing its aspects -- including the fact that its circle can be escaped from -- why should its stats be nerfed in addition to having that counterplay of being able to avoid it?

and what are you saying about "certain area"? is the area right now the certain area? or what?

"Certain area" = defined area. If your point is that the defined/certain circle is not limiting its effects, then my first post in this thread agrees that it's OP. Otherwise, my point is that this certain/defined area can be escaped from, so it's not OP. Simple.

if arty cover was only on the fuel point for example, it would have been WAY smaller and ALL arty covers would have had less effect.

But it matters not one bit, because the only reason you and your teammate's vehicles were hit by that arty was that you did not move them out of the circle. The arty doesn't have to be limited to some point if it can be avoided in its entirety as it is.

But if it can be escaped from by simply moving units out of its circle, why should it be nerfed? If it prevented timely escape, then yes, it would be OP and would need cost increase/stat decrease/whatever, but after reviewing its aspects -- including the fact that its circle can be escaped from -- you can come to a conclusion that it's not OP.

if you place it slightly behind the enemy vehicles (which you can due to recon) and then rush with comets, "timely esacpe" is absolutely impossible, especially for team weapons. end of discussion

im not gonna discuss this with you further. not trying to be rude, but you seem to be lacking the experience and gamesense also juding by your playercard

Oh, there we go. So instead of proving a point by facts now we stoop to the depths of ad hominem attacks. I expected this.

i'm sorry but to prove a point one needs to have some kind of basis of experiences or facts to argue, but my facts are ignored or you say something like

but I can't take a random screenshot as a proof that the arty hits units outside of its circle.

im not gonna reply to you anymore, as this thread is on the verge of derailing completely, if you want to argue further with me or want a 1v1 to prove your skill, pm me

Please don't dismember my posts for changing the point of discussion.

I was very clear about that point:

And sorry, nothing personal but I can't take a random screenshot as a proof that the arty hits units outside of its circle. But as I said, even if that is the case, my first post in this thread said it would be OP indeed if it wasn't restricted to specific area effect, so I've nothing to do with that point.

If it is broken because it is not limited to its circle, we are in agreement that it's OP and there's nothing to discuss there. But that was not what we were discussing -- we were discussing whether it's OP because its circle-based as opposed to sector-based. Important difference between the two points, and I hope this should be enough.

It's an ability when you move out of its AOE you opponent just lost 250 Munis. If you are stupid enough to stay in the AOE, then it's your own fault.
This applies to soooooo many other abilities in this game, from both sides (Axis and Allies).
And btw, I don't see so many players using it but all of a sudden it's a problem because a COH2 "bad manners" player used it and won King of the Hill.

Maybe make the AOE smaller or shorten the active time but other then that its ok.

Get over your selfs and stop

It's an ability when you move out of its AOE you opponent just lost 250 Munis. If you are stupid enough to stay in the AOE, then it's your own fault.

Precisely my point. I hope this makes it clearer.

...also juding by your playercard

Yours isn't that much better

Do you have a video/replay where a player on the receiving end of the Tactical Support Regiment artillery attempts to evade the circle but can not do so in time, in contrast to other circle-based or sector-based offmaps?

If this is your only point on reviewing if an ability is OP or not i don't think there's much we can discuss on.

But if it can be escaped from by simply moving units out of its circle, why should it be nerfed? If it prevented timely escape, then yes, it would be OP and would need cost increase/stat decrease/whatever, but after reviewing its aspects -- including the fact that its circle can be escaped from -- why should its stats be nerfed in addition to having that counterplay of being able to avoid it?

I've already presented you the whole spectrum of the ability and why i think it's OP. It's not a single aspect of the ability which makes it OP, it's the whole power level, specially compared to ALL OTHER OFFMAPS in the game.

By that same standard: all the other OP offmaps were fine because you could "dodge" them.

I was very clear about that point:
If it is broken because it is not limited to its circle, we are in agreement that it's OP and there's nothing to discuss there. But that was not what we were discussing -- we were discussing whether it's OP because its circle-based as opposed to sector-based. Important difference between the two points, and I hope this should be enough.

It's not just circle vs sector. It's the actual RANGE of the circle in comparison to all the other circle based tracking abilities.

It's an ability when you move out of its AOE you opponent just lost 250 Munis. If you are stupid enough to stay in the AOE, then it's your own fault.

Same could be said for original: "Strafe pin of doom", air superiority, IL2/Stuka loiter skill planes, Concentrated arty, 155mm mechanized, new Stuka dive bomb, etc.

Let me make this clear with an analogy: no one is stupid enough to stay outside while it's hailing. But if you have to put into cover your car, the garden table/chairs, the kids toys etc. while for some reason the neighbours dog jump the fence and is trying to bite you... Something is gonna break for sure.

Manual on how to use IWIN abilities:
Show Spoiler

Manual on how to use IWIN abilities like a pro:
Show Spoiler

Those 2 spoilers are just a joke, but are quite close to the truth.

By that same standard: all the other OP offmaps were fine because you could "dodge" them.

Or, they were not OP exactly because you could do that.

It's not just circle vs sector. It's the actual RANGE of the circle in comparison to all the other circle based tracking abilities.

That is not what I and the other user were discussing in our separate debate I pointed to, but I can take your (different) point there.

It's an ability when you move out of its AOE you opponent just lost 250 Munis. If you are stupid enough to stay in the AOE, then it's your own fault.

again, with recon run one can call it in slightly behind enemy lines, so if you retreat you will be in it for a bit

And btw, I don't see so many players using it but all of a sudden it's a problem because a COH2 "bad manners" player used it and won King of the Hill.

actually that was just bad play by the okw player

Maybe make the AOE smaller

nerfing the AoE to what the UI tells you might actually be enough to balance that ability

Yours isn't that much better

well, don't want to compare genital lengths here , but it is clearly better than his and clearly worse than yours. i will play a little bit more of 1v1 in the next days to see where i can get on my own (was ~325 with soviets after i played last game, i think i can go a bit up further)

It's not just circle vs sector. It's the actual RANGE of the circle in comparison to all the other circle based tracking abilities.

i dont know whether the actual range is bigger or not or compared to others, but yeah, making it sector based or nerfing its range is a sufficient way to nerf it, although i believe that with the pinning of inf it still would be annoying to play against

To think Airborne's P47 rocket strafe costs 10 less munitions than THIS...

The fact that people are arguing that a one click ability in a doctrine with free recon that can shut down an entire army isn't op is just mind boggling.

It's an ability when you move out of its AOE you opponent just lost 250 Munis. If you are stupid enough to stay in the AOE, then it's your own fault.
This applies to soooooo many other abilities in this game, from both sides (Axis and Allies).
And btw, I don't see so many players using it but all of a sudden it's a problem because a COH2 "bad manners" player used it and won King of the Hill.

Maybe make the AOE smaller or shorten the active time but other then that its ok.

Get over your selfs and stop

Things which make it OP:

- it comes realy to fast (u have only 2-3 sec to react)
- it has a huge circle
- has no counter (shut down planes etc)
- pin infantery and makle tanks unable to fight (looooooong reload time)
- its a easy "i klick here and win"button.. no tactic need

The fact that people are arguing that a one click ability in a doctrine with free recon that can shut down an entire army isn't op is just mind boggling.

Not even that, they are defending the ability lol

1- Sector abilities tends to either be focus around the flag position or through the sector zone. In either case, the area of effect is way smaller than AC (arty cover) and you are limited to a specific region.
Sector abilities tend to be stronger due to this in comparison to pinpoint abilities.
Circle area offmaps have either a way SMALLER AoE, are either weaker or have a strong RNG component on them.

2- The "current" OP part is either the AI capabilities, mostly cause it's GG for any support weapons which can't retreat or the range of the ability combined with it's duration.

Right now it does TOO MANY THINGS WELL in comparison to ALL OTHER OFFMAPS in the game.
-It doesn't have restrictions to zone casting in comparison to it's power level (Sector arty, Assault arty, Close the pocket)
-Arrival/Landing/Ramping is too fast (Air superiority, Sector assault, Zeroing, Scavenge arty)
-It's both AI and AT
-It can't be denied in comparison to planes.
-Duration and range (AoE)
-It's pinpoint accurate

Instead of nerfing it to be equal as other offmaps, i think that limiting it's access/casting is better, specially if this helps the other ability (FoP) to be more useable.





Why would it? It only "tracks" enemy vehicles. I'm not saying that the center of the ability should cast on top of the command vehicle btw, just that instead of free will casting on any part of the map, you must do it from a nearby casting unit/building.

Gotcha, I saw the diagram in the next post and was a little confused.

The fact that people are arguing that a one click ability in a doctrine with free recon that can shut down an entire army isn't op is just mind boggling.

Exactly +1

Guys come down

To collect all, what got said in this thread:

A) Arty cover is really really strong, when you use it cordinate.

B) About the recon before, when you got 222, Ostwind or even better flakhft or OKW T4 the recon is acutally allways instant death. By 222 and Ostwind not to 100%, but the okw flakhft and OKW t4 is very powerful vs recons.

C) Yes it hits kind of out of the circle, what is bullshit. Relic has to fix this for sure

D) When you just use the arty cover, on max range from you, enemie will just go away and you wasted muni. So yes you need to drive first in, and then use it.

E) If allies don't have arty cover, how you want to kill Ele/ JT on some maps? Its not possible^^ And i remember in the past, before arty cover was there, people complained about, that p47 kills their heavy tanks.

So yes they have to change arty cover again. But atleast they fixed the engiedamge crit allready.

For me it would be fine, when they fix it, that it can't shoot out of the circle anymore. That would be a great start.

And guys, you can write here 1000 threads more. Relic will not watch this thread. But when you guys feel better, go on and write

The only op thing of arty cover is the duration , imho like others offmap you can dodge it going out of area. That ability force a retrat, like air supremacy. The problem is the duration of arty cover, we are talking about one minute? Is too much, if you fail the tank push, enemy must retrat anyway, lowering down the time of arty cover force you to be fast on your push and if you fail, the enemy will come back a lot faster.