Post created here by the request of Hector The Senior Strategist.
Apart from missplay at the start sending pio s to cap before building T1 what did i do wrong and lost the game? Thank you.
https://www.coh2.org/replay/58895/can-you-help-me-improve
Edit:
I am Ostheer. I am not familiar with the map so my capping order is off.
Can you help me improve?
26 Jan 2017, 19:28 PM
#1
Posts: 12
26 Jan 2017, 19:44 PM
#2
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Will give it a look tomorrow
27 Jan 2017, 06:41 AM
#3
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
After watching the match it looks more like small details that are holding you back. All these small mistakes build up into a pile of mistakes that result in a loss.
Some things I saw you could improve on:
Overall micro; at times you were fighting with squads and had other squads just sitting nearby not participating. Micro will generally improve with time spent ingame but focusing on keeping your units active will help you a large deal.
Once you saw his captain, you should know with the current meta he was going stuart. You need some form of AT ASAP. When the stuart hit the field you had a pak being built, but if he chased down the gren squad on his alpha attack (initial revealing attack of the unit) you would have lost a squad and had no way to stop his dive. If that was a t70 you could've kissed that squad goodbye. Allied players right now will go for light vehicles in higher level matches because light vehicles are so strong in the current meta. Premptive AT. Do it every match or you'll bleed out and lose the game to a light tank.
When you initially saw the fighting position in mid covering the VP, you can destroy that with your pak if you support the pak and/or you've forced considerable retreats. you eventually destroyed it with your P4 which is fine but you could've destroyed it earlier.
You seemed to be either indecisive or made a costly missplay with teching T4 because you unlocked the battlehpase but then built a 2nd P4. I'd suggest really waiting on teching t4 as Ostheer as the benefits are generally situational. If you do want T4 you should wait until you can at least be half way to getting the fuel for the required unit you want after the teching cost. This way you have fuel in the bank if things go badly and you need to rebuild a p4 or need a stug for AT.
This USF players main anti infatry was the Assualt engineers with flamers and then rifles with a single BAR and zook. If any player does that they're indecisive on the specilization of their rifles and will often force them to blob because they lack the AT or AI of just the 1 weapon and will need to compensate with another squad. If this happens give your infantry the best upgrades you can get, and blow his infantry out of the map. If you can't trade in infantry engagements you can't support your AT plateforms. Tanks can deal with infantry but are forced to kite even single grens out of fear of fausts. If nothing can stop your infantry you can run him over in the long run. You had multiple gren squads that needed LMG upgrades. Get those upgrades they aid a lot, and with LMG squads and just most squads in general use attack move so your squads fire a max range. This will allow for most time firing LMGs and avoid unneccessary deaths when you accidentally forget about a squad and run into a close quaters unit like sturmpios.
Your commander roster was a bit subpar for 1v1 gameplay. Elephants will hardly ever be used in 1v1 due to the higher chance of flanks and less friendly support of heavy tank destroyers. Plus the maps are much smaller. Mechanized is probably the strongest Ostheer commander at the moment due to its callins and ability to skip teching. On this map I would have been very suitable to use Assualt Grenadiers as it was a medium to close range map. the Stug Es would have been highly effective against all the infantry running around and could've dealt with the stuart much quicker. also carries a Tiger for the late game.
At one point in the early game I saw a gren squad move closer to a Assualt engineer squad just to get into light cover, however when your squad got there the engineers were there aswell. Cover is negated within 10 units of distance unless the cover is a garrison or is negative cover. If you have to close in for cover with a close quaters unit also closing in in the same direction, just put your squad in cover somewhere else or fight where your squad is good. Grens at long range in open still beat Assualt engineers and will either force him to disengage, charge you, or retreat.
I did notice the capping order was rather lacking, just use the minimap or tac map to see what connects to where. If nothing else just go in order from closest to farthest.
Mines win games
Last point, You did this all in with your 2 p4s trying to kill 1 wolverine while he still had a sherman in support. Lost them both then tried to followup with your infantry and lost 4 squads 2 of which were your pios. THEN you called in a Tiger. Don't all in just before your heavy tank shows up. You lost so much that the tiger was highly ineffective and lost in about 1 minute. If you could've supported that tiger with both p4s and all 4 of those lost squads plus you needed the repairs from the pios. You could've pushed him to bleed to death or secured at minimum 2 VPs.
Overall just small mistakes that lead to larger ones. Hopefully this info helped and Hector will hopefully pickup on some things I missed or you were confused on. Feel free to ask questions if there is something you don't understand or have any questions ingeneral.
Some things I saw you could improve on:
Overall micro; at times you were fighting with squads and had other squads just sitting nearby not participating. Micro will generally improve with time spent ingame but focusing on keeping your units active will help you a large deal.
Once you saw his captain, you should know with the current meta he was going stuart. You need some form of AT ASAP. When the stuart hit the field you had a pak being built, but if he chased down the gren squad on his alpha attack (initial revealing attack of the unit) you would have lost a squad and had no way to stop his dive. If that was a t70 you could've kissed that squad goodbye. Allied players right now will go for light vehicles in higher level matches because light vehicles are so strong in the current meta. Premptive AT. Do it every match or you'll bleed out and lose the game to a light tank.
When you initially saw the fighting position in mid covering the VP, you can destroy that with your pak if you support the pak and/or you've forced considerable retreats. you eventually destroyed it with your P4 which is fine but you could've destroyed it earlier.
You seemed to be either indecisive or made a costly missplay with teching T4 because you unlocked the battlehpase but then built a 2nd P4. I'd suggest really waiting on teching t4 as Ostheer as the benefits are generally situational. If you do want T4 you should wait until you can at least be half way to getting the fuel for the required unit you want after the teching cost. This way you have fuel in the bank if things go badly and you need to rebuild a p4 or need a stug for AT.
This USF players main anti infatry was the Assualt engineers with flamers and then rifles with a single BAR and zook. If any player does that they're indecisive on the specilization of their rifles and will often force them to blob because they lack the AT or AI of just the 1 weapon and will need to compensate with another squad. If this happens give your infantry the best upgrades you can get, and blow his infantry out of the map. If you can't trade in infantry engagements you can't support your AT plateforms. Tanks can deal with infantry but are forced to kite even single grens out of fear of fausts. If nothing can stop your infantry you can run him over in the long run. You had multiple gren squads that needed LMG upgrades. Get those upgrades they aid a lot, and with LMG squads and just most squads in general use attack move so your squads fire a max range. This will allow for most time firing LMGs and avoid unneccessary deaths when you accidentally forget about a squad and run into a close quaters unit like sturmpios.
Your commander roster was a bit subpar for 1v1 gameplay. Elephants will hardly ever be used in 1v1 due to the higher chance of flanks and less friendly support of heavy tank destroyers. Plus the maps are much smaller. Mechanized is probably the strongest Ostheer commander at the moment due to its callins and ability to skip teching. On this map I would have been very suitable to use Assualt Grenadiers as it was a medium to close range map. the Stug Es would have been highly effective against all the infantry running around and could've dealt with the stuart much quicker. also carries a Tiger for the late game.
At one point in the early game I saw a gren squad move closer to a Assualt engineer squad just to get into light cover, however when your squad got there the engineers were there aswell. Cover is negated within 10 units of distance unless the cover is a garrison or is negative cover. If you have to close in for cover with a close quaters unit also closing in in the same direction, just put your squad in cover somewhere else or fight where your squad is good. Grens at long range in open still beat Assualt engineers and will either force him to disengage, charge you, or retreat.
I did notice the capping order was rather lacking, just use the minimap or tac map to see what connects to where. If nothing else just go in order from closest to farthest.
Mines win games
Last point, You did this all in with your 2 p4s trying to kill 1 wolverine while he still had a sherman in support. Lost them both then tried to followup with your infantry and lost 4 squads 2 of which were your pios. THEN you called in a Tiger. Don't all in just before your heavy tank shows up. You lost so much that the tiger was highly ineffective and lost in about 1 minute. If you could've supported that tiger with both p4s and all 4 of those lost squads plus you needed the repairs from the pios. You could've pushed him to bleed to death or secured at minimum 2 VPs.
Overall just small mistakes that lead to larger ones. Hopefully this info helped and Hector will hopefully pickup on some things I missed or you were confused on. Feel free to ask questions if there is something you don't understand or have any questions ingeneral.
27 Jan 2017, 17:13 PM
#4
Posts: 12
ShadowLinkX37 thank you for amazing analysis. I will try to correct every mistake i made however i need to confess I only have base factions and 0 commanders only included ones.. I did look at them and put them as i see so does not have a knowledge of commander abilities that much. As for current state i still have very little knowledge about which buildorder supports what. For example in vCOH if We see Bars on rifle man we can be sure there is no M8 coming soon, or if we did not see any bars on rifleman for a period of time we need to get PAK cuz they are going to get M8 pretty soon. Or against UKF if we see bren carrier no fast teching etc..
I do not have this kind of knowledge of buildorders about other factions.
Some goes for core and advanced infantry play. I would like to know which unit is better at what range and what upgrades provides them what. as in VCoh Rifleman are better are middle close range against Volks but volks will kill them at long range due to difference between Kar98 and m1garand in game accuricy and firerate etc...
I do not have a spesific idea about what to do when encounter which unit. Should i stay or hard/soft retreat againts Ranger,paratroopers, w/ or wout/ rifleman squads etc.
Apart from vcoh maps ported to coh2 I have very little knowledge about maps and i vetoed all my 7 right and there is still a lot of maps in the pool. Thats why i really struggle with capping order and placements. I have very good knowledge about langres,angoville,semois and little about others like crossroads and Ferma...
I do not have this kind of knowledge of buildorders about other factions.
Some goes for core and advanced infantry play. I would like to know which unit is better at what range and what upgrades provides them what. as in VCoh Rifleman are better are middle close range against Volks but volks will kill them at long range due to difference between Kar98 and m1garand in game accuricy and firerate etc...
I do not have a spesific idea about what to do when encounter which unit. Should i stay or hard/soft retreat againts Ranger,paratroopers, w/ or wout/ rifleman squads etc.
Apart from vcoh maps ported to coh2 I have very little knowledge about maps and i vetoed all my 7 right and there is still a lot of maps in the pool. Thats why i really struggle with capping order and placements. I have very good knowledge about langres,angoville,semois and little about others like crossroads and Ferma...
27 Jan 2017, 21:13 PM
#5
Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36
Seems like ShadowLinkX37 did a good job here allready
And you are new to this, so step by step, play more and you will feel more comfortable
And you are new to this, so step by step, play more and you will feel more comfortable
28 Jan 2017, 00:11 AM
#6
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
The following links are to a casters channel named Tightrope Gaming. The man casting goes by the alias Tightrope/Tightropexilo. His series of Micro Tips & Tricks as well as the Coh2 Starter series give a solid foundation for mechanics and interactions, I'd highly suggest watching them.
Playist for Micro Tips & Tricks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rkp3LLM3WA&list=PLMJFmZl8aYOdW4tzX-S3VL2tq5JfuiViK
Playlist for Coh2 Starter Series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkDhwSaDOBA&list=PLMJFmZl8aYOeoRdddMg7im6dwJHI4y7bL
This playlist includes all previous videos as well as 4 additional videos about things including garrisons and infiltration units that are also helpful. I placed the other 2 links because this playlist is rather messy and out of order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFkuz3DrnA&list=PLMJFmZl8aYOf337dGjOP8DlJchPDYWmKn
HelpingHans is a Coh2 top tier player regarded as one of the best players currently playing. His Tip of the week videos are also very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zroROTSphpY&list=PLwkm_w8wXFhjEX14k1f3Z2EWgYuIFi-Cf
I'd recommend subscribing or at least checking back with these 2 YouTube channels to see if they have new or informative videos uploaded every once in awhlile.
From the 2 build orders your gave examples from vCOH with the BAR rifles means m8 coming and the UKF bren carrier means late tech, disregard those previous knowledge basis for coh2. In coh2 USF will go for weapon racks BARs/zook tech in almost every game you play against them. M8 are a rarity to see in the current meta, and it doesn't look like they'll be returning to the meta for at least 1 additional patch. Bren carriers for the UKF is more preference of the UKF player. they can be good harrassing units and can hunt down the OKW kubels with little threat to them early game.
For build orders, HelpingHans did a tip of the week on build orders not to long ago. It is in the playlist I listed above. It's a rather long video because it does include all 5 factions and most build orders. It will give you knowledge of build orders you can utilize as well as your opponets.
Your knowledge of units for at least riflemen and volks are solid for Coh2. Rifles win at medium to close range with their m1garands due to accuracy and fire rate, but volks win at long range.
Every situation in coh is a case by case basis. Something you probably understand being a vCOH player. Generally though it all depends on the weapons equiped by what. If I see rangers with no upgrades I know that they're a decent infantry section with good all around DPS in long/medium/short ranges. However if they get the thompson upgrades which all ranger squads should if the player can afford it, I know now they suffer heavily at long range, substantially at medium but will destroy you at close range. Paratroopers are decent at all ranges like the rangers but can have their DPS boosted at certain ranges with the thompson or M1919 upgrades. LMGs are powerful at long range. when someone tells you weapons are good at long range, it just means those weapons lose out up close usually due to fire rate. Kar98s on volks still hit their mark at close range, they just don't have the firerate to compete with the DPS coming out of the m1garands. LMGs require being stationary to fire with the exception of the Obersoldaten MG34 which can fire on the move. This is why attack moving is strongly encouraged with LMGs, as it gives them both the long range advantage and the force stop if an enemy is sighted so the squad can use their LMG.
If you have additional questions I can answer feel free to ask. You're also more than welcome to add me on steam if you'd like a more direct way to ask questions.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/ShadowLinkX37/
If your steam name is differant than your coh2.org name please tell me that through the steam chat function.
28 Jan 2017, 17:30 PM
#7
Posts: 12
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198019169177/
Thank you. My steam name is Zerdali, and on top i posted my steam account link you can check it there.
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