S73v0 - heals93, Stonethecrow01, Alecino101

Here's a couple I'd like you to have a look at S73v0

http://www.coh2.org/replays/6400/for-mentorship

http://www.coh2.org/replays/6401/loss-for-mentorship-2

Cool, I will have a look at it by Wednesday.

So Langres is a tough map for soviets. I usually conscript spam on it with molotovs and be really aggressive to try and do lots of damage as once Ostheer locks down the right hand side it can be difficult to dislodge without some crazy flank or artillery.

So you went 3 conscripts to T2. I wouldn't send all my first conscripts to the left side though. I would send them to the right hand side as stated before once ostheer takes the right handside it is difficult to dislodge. I think taking the house at the start is very important as you can see what the Ostheer player is doing without getting pushed off.

You're flanks at the start weren't very good. One conscript walked into an mg and the other went for the cutoff but got pushed off by two grens. Use oorah to get your conscript behind the hedge and keep it in the game as especially early game presence on the field is important.

There was a point near the middle where one of your squads got suppressed at max range in cover and you retreated immediately. I think you should leave conscripts suppressed as long as you can as 1. you see what the ostheer player is doing. 2. you tie up one of his units for longer. 3. you open up an opportunity for a flank. Remember that retreating means that you have lost the fight and when you're pinned there is a period of time when you take little damage so stick around a little bit under fire unless you have nothing to gain from it.

You should have sent your first maxim to cover your cutoff since you knew he was going for it. That would have prevented the second cut-off move. I also find the early mortar quite useless until it gets vet 1 when the precision barrage can wipe out mg squads. So note that when purchasing the mortar you shouldn't expect it to do much work until later on unless you get incredibly lucky ofc.

Nice job taking out a pio, your opponent also got a sniper. German snipers are quite effective against T2 as you have no access to scout cars or snipers. Note that this could be a weakness of your strategy. I would tech to T4 to get arty to counter it or pray that the opponent can't micro.

You got the AT gun to counter the halftrack but used all your munitions on barrage. This was a very bad mistake. You can use it once in a while but you used it 3 times in a row and blew through 180 of your munitions which could have been used on mines. If you want arty go for T4 and get SU-76s whose arty barrage is free.

I would have moved the AT gun to a position where it can take out the halftrack, unfortunately you lost your maxim to it which was quite bad. You took out an mg but couldn't capture it because of the sniper and halftrack. By the time you moved your AT gun up you had no infantry to cover it as they all had retreated. If you had saved your munis and instead planted mines around your AT gun and cutoff you could have defended your side of the map.

You managed to stockpile alot of fuel which was good since the opponent only focussed on the cutoffs and not resources. I would have gotten T4 alot earlier and gotten SU-76. You could even have forgotten the AT gun and instead call in a guard squad as you had the fuel to counter the halftrack.

Why didn't you get AT nades? Probably your biggest mistake. Always get AT nades against the halftrack or any vehicle play from Ostheer. You could have come back if you had it as he drove into your base with the halftrack you could have killed it with AT nades and guards and get 2-3 SU-76s barraging everything. Also a few more mines could have protected the infantry and halftrack from flanking your AT gun.

Other than that keep up the good work, try out some other builds as well like conscript spam or T1 starts and find what suits you best and what counters what. GL HF.

To conclude:

• Only incorporate AT gun when you don't have the fuel for T4, otherwise go straight for T4 and use guards as a soft counter to halftrack.
  
• Don't spam the AT gun barrage as it wastes your munis. Use it on mines esp on Langres the mines are very useful at defending you cutoff and coh1 vets know where all the good mine spots are.
  
• Your doctrine choice was weird and didn't help you at all. Go for ppshes instead if you have nothing better.
  
• get SU-76 for arty or even the katyusha would have been good here as you had so much fuel.
  
• AT nades!!!
  

I will review the game vs Paradox soon!

Thanks, great feedback

I hate this map with a passion. Imo mgs rock this map so as soviets I will either go for a sniper car start or a start involving quick maxims similar to your current T2 build.

The sniper car start is with your starting engineer immediately build T1 then build a sniper and then an m3. Use your sniper car to harass the mg and grens microing it around. After the sniper car you get 3 cons. If he goes for gren spam switch into conscript spam with molotovs and ppshes. If he goes for T2 get guards and plant mines to kill the scout car.

The advantage of the sniper car is that you get your sniper on the field much earlier and do much more damage. The disadvantage is that you lose field presence at the start. But it can negate the grens upgraded with lmgs that everyone is going nowadays which just rips apart cons by themselves.

I haven't found clowncars with flamers to be very effective this patch as a faust and a bit of focus fire can take them down quickly. Don't charge them in unless there is only 1 unit or unless you have a lot of con support. A sniper car will allow you tee off with no danger to the scout car unless he gets a his own AC. Losing a clown car without it doing anything really slows down your teching as soviets.

In this game I think you managed to match your opponent, and at the end you could have won if you could have kept your pressure up. Especially your sniper was your hero and was able to inflict alot of damage. But you lost on vps and I think this is mostly due to you not capping them at the start. So yeah work on your capping order and make sure you don't neglect the vps.

Nice job harassing the fuel and holding it for a long time, but yea just cons on this map is pretty bad so you lost it back again quite quickly. Gj getting healing quickly as some of your squads were pretty low health. When your troops are like that always consider getting healing instead of teching as it can really pay off late into the game.

Remember to get AT nades when you see the halftrack. It can really pay off and allow you to punish an opponent when he plays incorrectly. My first vehicle out of T4 wouldn't have been the SU-85. Those vetted lmg grens were giving you alot of trouble. Get the SU-76 instead for the arty or even the katyusha. He was pinning you in your base and since you had the fuel for a long time you know can get the SU-85 out afterwards in time to counter the p4. The SU-85 could only counter the halftrack but its tough without infantry support and with the pak on the field.

You got the pak. That is very good. Remember to repair it up. This is the point where I would have made my comeback as a pak and a SU-85 with mines, AT nades and button would have been able to counter axis armour coming. I would have gotten more conscripts combined with sniper to overwhelm the ostheer infantry. Merge your conscripts with the pak to keep the pak healthy.

Still haven't got AT nades... Remember it's a must have upgrade as soviets against armour. The pak was decrewed. You're still having trouble against the vetted grens. I would consider getting molotovs and more conscripts to deal with that. It would have helped to get a different doctrine with ppshes as the only thing you got out of your doctrine was the mortar and mark target.

Ouch the panther rolled onto the field and you're SU-85 was fausted and your pak was still decrewed in your base. This was when you lost the game. Make sure to keep your pak healthy even making a conscript squad to recrew it would have been good and remember to repair the pak.

You wasted your munis on mark target when all your AT was gone. You made a penal, I would have gotten cons to get the pak but at this point you were low on vps and not much you can do. Gg wp.

To conclude:

• get vps at the start
  
• modify your builds for map which is hard to flank as soviets, look for builds involving mgs or high mobility units to flank german mgs.
  
• consider going a doctrine with ppshes to make your cons more powerful against vetted grens
  
• get at nades earlier
  
• when you're lacking in anti-inf and AT and floating alot of manpower just get more conscripts
  
• make sure you recrew the pak 40 and repair it, it can pay off huge dividends when combined with SU-85
  
• don't waste your munis on mark target when there is nothing shooting at the vehicle. Use it on mines, AT nades, button etc.
  

Otherwise your sniper play was good, your fuel harass at the beginning was good. Just have to learn to play late game and defensive against a good player.

Also please post any thoughts you had on the game as it allows me to focus on things that you are having alot of trouble with instead of rambling on things you already know. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Hey Steve,

Been playing heavily in multiplayer games lately and since our first training session I have worked consistently on what you showed/taught me.

I am generally always winning early game using MG teams effectively and countering whatever I see, I am teching up on time and paying attention to not resource floating like you showed me but I am having the greatest of difficulty in beating SU spam by skilled players.

The best players I face will get out a SU85 while I have a P4/Panther/Pak on the field already it will engage me I judge the situation and either pull back or attempt to flank. I find it incredibly difficult to counter them as I know Panzerschreks in my experience have always been pushed off by MG's or shock troops.

Pak's have always been out ranged and inf rushed but I try to keep a MG to protect it and when I attempt to flank it, it goes into warp speed reverse whilst continuing to get rounds on me and generally always having the support of a AT gun or conscripts AT nading my Armour attempted flank.

Therefore every tank I send on a flanking mission is generally whilst I am on this endeavour of dealing with the single SU-85 or Multiple as time goes, other territory is being swept up by the Soviet player and I generally lose the game to SU-85 giving field superiority.

Now I know the counters to SU-85 are as follows

Panzerschreks-Countered by shock troops or MG’s.
Pak-Outranged and Inf flanked.
Armour (Stug’s, P4 and Panther)-Out gunned and out ranged.
Elephant-Gets onto the Field too late generally only to be rammed by a T34.

I feel until a balance patch comes aimed at the SU-85 I am always bested by skilled Soviet players. Also understand only skilled Soviet players use it effectively I win generally against players who don’t micro it properly or support it or don’t see the signs of a flank incoming.

Aaron.

Hi Aaron,

SU-85s are very strong but certainly not OP. There are many counters to it as listed by you. Panzershrecks, panzer 4 flanks, paks, fausts and so on. The trouble for the Ostheer player is actually combining these together to effectively deal with the SU-85, which is difficult as any 1 of these counters alone would not be enough to deal with SU-85s. That I think is your problem.

Btw a problem is that since the game is so young and the meta has not been defined yet, I will change my BOs multiple times. I have discovered a much better BO for Germans:

T1->gren->mg->gren->mg->gren->T2

Forget about the flamer halftrack, upgrade your grens with lmgs as you can vet them up and steamroll through the conscripts. Get a halftrack but no need to upgrade them with flamers unless you see maxims. Use it to reinforce. Get scout cars preferbly 2 if you see enemy scout cars. Scout cars are very good at killing infantry when you have 2 of them together as you can kite with them so long as you're careful not getting them AT naded. Otherwise get more panzergrenadiers and tech to T3. Try this BO, it's less micro-intensive then the other BO I gave you and I think you should have more success with it.

Now on to dealing with the SU-85:

Now SU-85s are expensive so there is a long window in which the soviet player has only 1 SU-85 on the field. That's when it is most vulnerable and you can usually finish it off with 2-way panzer 4 flank. You should also have been harassing the fuel all game as panzer 4s are going to be your main counter to SU-85. If you only have 1 panzer 4 don't bother charging it unless it's on low health or you can flank it, just keep your panzer 4 on the sides away from the SU-85 to kill harassing soviet infantry. Don't overextend your panzer 4s, make sure you keep a route open to escape until you're ready to send and all out assault to kill the SU-85s. Once the SU-85s go down you can roll into the enemy base and win.

If you don't have the fuel for panzer 4 spam. Then upgrade panzershrecks. Vetted panzershrecks do alot of damage and SU-85s can't kill panzershrecks fast enough. With mg support you can run past the soviet infantry, and damage the SU-85 enough to force it to back away to be repaired. If you group up 2 panzershreck squads you can easily take it out. Also remember to move up your pak with the army to take a few shots at the SU-85 if you have a pak.

If the enemy gets 2 SU-85s you have done something wrong long before if you're not winning. SU-85s are still pretty bad against infantry and if you can't deal with them just spam grenadiers and cap the vps. Otherwise you can go for pak 43 or even the elefant by skipping T3.

You can watch a few replays from the tourney from CondemnationWings who used elefants to counter SU-85s. However it won't work if the opponent knows it's coming as they can counter with T3.

Honestly there are so many ways to take out an SU-85 that it's almost impossible for me to write them all down fully. The trick is combining all these together, charging with panzershrecks, move up the pak, flank around with panzer 4s... If you post a replay I can check where exactly you went wrong. Otherwise if you really can't deal with it, spam grenadiers and keep your armour to the sides of the map away from SU-85s.

Keep up refining your BOs and getting used to getting your units on the field. We can start working on your micro now and winning games

Steve your too good!

Gren spam is working excellently and I am becoming more fluid and almost riskier in my build order tried out a sniper for the first time, against a MG spamming Soviet(Never used snipers, I find the amount of micro too much effort)and it gave great results. I used the sniper effectively in 2 games with no casualties.

Also I didn't know that Panzerfaust was instant engine damage until now (/facepalm) and now it is doing wonders for my anti SU-85 efforts managed to cleanse a few players who tried the SU-85 spam using Panthers and Panzerfaust in an effective combined effort.

So Thanks very much for your help so far improved massively since working with you!

Also just finished today setting up my twitch channel http://www.twitch.tv/heals93 check it out put a lot of effort into the art work and some interesting links followers can follow for a historical read. Now just waiting for NBN high speed internet which will be installed in our building any day now then I will be streaming CoH2 daily.

Aaron.

Good to hear that you're finding builds that are working out for you. A german sniper can be very good against Soviet T2 since they have no access to scout cars or sniper teams. Find a build you're comfortable with and practice getting all the units out with precision so you don't float manpower.

I will check out your broadcast when I get the time. Maybe if I catch you streaming I can give you tips during the game so we can start working on your micro, positioning of units etc.

Apologies for the lack of time to post here guys, I've played a few games here and there of Company of Heroes 2. All of the games I have played so far I've won, but I have been making a few silly mistakes such as non microing units and double unit capping when things get a bit tense.

So I've not bothered to upload them but I'm more than happy to if I could even just get a general quick skim over the games that I've won just to identify any weak points in my skill.

Just took a loss on Langres, got generally outplayed and panicked in situations trying to deal with a sniper surrounded by swarms of 'Scripts with AT nades.

Eventually caved due to an SU-85 I couldn't hold off. Need to have a serious look at countering snipers again, generally my play against them has gotten sloppy.




alecino101_s73v0_mentoring_replay

Had a good game vs Alecino101 last night, albeit it was a bit laggy and he may have been a bit rusty. His micro and early game is quite good, just needs to work on tech choices, positioning of units, holding onto resources etc.

You guys should arrange some matches against each other, then we can have a look at them together or something

So your early game was very good. You caught a conscript with an mg, put a pio in the house and harassed his fuel. You also dodged his quick molotovs easily so your micro was pretty good. The only thing I would change is that maybe instead of sending the gren to the left side to cap send your pio instead. That gren could have been doing good work in the centre or on the right as they're much stronger than pios. If you want to send a gren to cap the left send it later not your first gren. You need to keep your army together as ostheer especially early game.

Your opponent got a sniper and you got a halftrack. To counter the early sniper as ostheer I usually use scout cars, you can even get 2 since you denied him fuel. Especially in the early game when there are no guards or tanks on the field 2 conscripts with AT nades can't protect the sniper well so you can chase the sniper with the scout car. You were also floating alot of munis ~170, you should think about upgrading the flamer halftrack or upgrade some lmgs on your grens.

You were also floating ~470 manpower, be careful about that, get some pgrens out as you know no armour is coming yet.

Really nice job basepinning him. You got a lot of kills with your grens especially the one with the lmg. However your grens after so much fighting were losing alot of health. I would have immediately built a med bunker back at base. Or if you want to be fancy you can build it on the field. Remember grens can build bunkers as well so you should immediately think about getting a med bunker when your grens are at low health.

But the thing that lost you the game was getting a pak instead of a panzer 4. It was a terrible mistake to get a pak when the SU-76 came out. If you had gotten a panzer 4 you would have won. That sniper easily sniped your pak and the SU-76 did some good work with barrage. As Ostheer, to counter snipers late game I use tanks to run them down. Your opponent had no good AT to counter the p4 so you could easily have killed the SU-76 and sniper and run amok with good micro.

Still no medic bunker, you also start crumbling under the pressure, with a lot of lost squads. I think when you're under pressure you tend to forget about squads and micro badly. Your panzer 4 came out far too late. By the time it came out you had lost a lot of squads and your opponent capped the entire map allowing him to get a SU-85. That's pretty much gg.

To conclude:

• Earlier medic bunker
  
• Spend your munis
  
• use scout cars to counter early snipers
  
• bad tech choices lost you that game. Pak40 when there is a SU-76 and sniper on the field was a bad choice instead of panzer 4.
  

Hey heals93, I don't mentor 2v2s sorry since its too dependent on what your ally did.

On that map the way we played it was really two individual 1v1's but I understand what you mean.

Hey Steve just thought of a Mentor question, I want to learn the hotkeys for COH2 better like I see on the streams people pushing a hotkey for following a units movement, scrolling selection of units without clicking them on the top right of the screen and any others you know well from your COH time as I bought the game on a digital copy so never received a manual.

Hey, good question. So yeah I don't use many hotkeys in coh but the ones I do use I've found to be the most useful at improving reaction time and my play. The ones I use are 'E' for grenades, AT nades and rifle grenades. 'F' for fausts, 'V' for molotovs, 'T' for retreat, 'A' for attackmove and also 'F1','F2','F3'... etc. for selecting my buildings. I also use the quickbar on the middle of the right hand side of the UI to select my buildings when I'm busy microing.

I also sometimes hotkey my army but I don't do it excessively. I only hotkey my high value units like CTRL-1 for scout cars, CTRL-2 and CTRL-3 for arty, CTRL-4 for snipers. Imo it is not necessary to hotkey all your units like grens and conscripts because you can easily get confused which you select since you build so many of them.

There is no right way to hotkeys, some play completely without it, some play excessively with it and some play somewhere in between and play just fine. Imo learning a few hotkeys can improve your play but obviously find the hotkeys that work for you. I recommend at least learning the grenade, faust and molotov hotkeys and also T for retreat. If you want to put in some more that's fine but you don't need to go excessively into it to be a good player.

I don't think I'll be using this thread any more so I just wanted to say thanks a lot for your advice S73v0. It was very useful and to the point. Cheers

Np mate, take care and good luck with wherever life takes you