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(2) Bombarded Refinery

27 Aug 2016, 15:07 PM
#1
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

Here is one of my submissions for the map making contest, it is called (2) Bombarded Refinery, hope you guys enjoy!

Map description:

Heavy air attacks on the Soviet Union factories have left the nation crippled and weakened. This factory is one of many that can be retaken to begin the resupply and push back of the axis forces, however this one in particular, features a main supply route directly out of the factory, giving it extra priotization by both sides to retake and control to continue the war effort.

Live cast of game!


Loading Screen


Mini-Map Preview


Tacitcal Map Preview


Upper Left VP


Middle VP


Bottom Right VP



Any questions comments or concerns feel free to ask!
27 Aug 2016, 15:34 PM
#2
avatar of Zyswen

Posts: 149 | Subs: 1

(puke) (just jk) Kappa
27 Aug 2016, 16:02 PM
#3
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2016, 15:34 PMZyswen
(puke) (just jk) Kappa


4Head
10 Oct 2016, 22:27 PM
#4
avatar of Decepticus

Posts: 140

Finally tried it. Not really fun to play on. Long range infantry need not apply. It's like Lierneux 1v1 and I automatically vetoe Lierneux so I guess I'm biased. But A for effort.
10 Oct 2016, 23:31 PM
#5
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

Finally tried it. Not really fun to play on. Long range infantry need not apply. It's like Lierneux 1v1 and I automatically vetoe Lierneux so I guess I'm biased. But A for effort.


Considering the only pathing that could be an issue is the middle of the map near the middle VP (and this is only if you mismicro a light vehicle) , your point is pretty null. Also the reason the buildings are damaged is due to the fact that if they were all garrison-able they would never get destroyed, due to the astronomically high garrison strength of the industrial buildings.

I love how this is now the second time that you basically leave a comment that is in its entirety negative, without leaving any sort of reasoning why. Not suggestions on fixes for the "issues" you propose after your 2 play tests.

What is LAUGHABLE is tightrope, fahu, vonivan, and plenty of other top players have played, and do the same thing. Think that CQC dominate the map, as that is what you are trained to think, and then are punished heavily by traditional openings.

This would mean that mass sturmpios would be strong, which fahu tried vs tightrope and was massacred, this would mean shocks are good, but seem to do poorly if your opponent isn't AI.

As from your steam comment, and this one it sounds like you want all the buildings to be garrision-able and just indirect fire and team weapons fests. Guess we could just reskin Arnhem or Glider to and industrial feel for you to cry about that as well, since it seems the map doesn't fit what you initially thought it would play, so therefore it is wrong.

If you are going to leave feedback I suggest actually leaving feedback, not snidely being negative for nothing other than the sake of being negative.
10 Oct 2016, 23:45 PM
#6
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

Finally tried it. Not really fun to play on. Long range infantry need not apply. It's like Lierneux 1v1 and I automatically vetoe Lierneux so I guess I'm biased. But A for effort.


I would also like to point out that you referenced Lierneux, the map that has a village, an open field, and a forest. So apparently I have this as well. I forgot how my industrial CQC (as you say long range units, need not apply) is like a map of OPEN FIELDS AND FOREST. Honestly I don't know how people like you function in society with your amazing grasp of comparison and deductive reasoning.
11 Oct 2016, 01:36 AM
#7
avatar of Decepticus

Posts: 140

Dude you need to relax and stop taking everything personally. It's just a matter of opinions / tastes. I don't like industrial maps in general and this one is no exception. I like your other map Ruin Market more and was going to post on it (still might) but your reactions discourage any sort of praise.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2016, 23:31 PMTric

I love how this is now the second time that you basically leave a comment that is in its entirety negative, without leaving any sort of reasoning why. Not suggestions on fixes for the "issues" you propose after your 2 play tests.


I posted a very reasoned comment on another map here and you basically insulted me until someone told you I was actually right. You didn't even acknowledge it, let alone apologize.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2016, 23:31 PMTric

What is LAUGHABLE is tightrope, fahu, vonivan, and plenty of other top players have played, and do the same thing.


So you're saying everybody is wrong except you? If that's the case, you're not looking for constructive criticism, just yes men.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2016, 23:31 PMTric

If you are going to leave feedback I suggest actually leaving feedback, not snidely being negative for nothing other than the sake of being negative.


As I said I tried that once and you called me names, even though you were proven wrong. You refuse negative criticism AND constructive criticism. You just refuse criticism I guess.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2016, 23:45 PMTric

I would also like to point out that you referenced Lierneux, the map that has a village, an open field, and a forest.


I meant Dusseldorf. Too lazy to check. I vetoe Lierneux as well, hence the confusion.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2016, 23:45 PMTric

Honestly I don't know how people like you function in society with your amazing grasp of comparison and deductive reasoning.


There you go again. Because I didn't leave a 1000 words commentary, I am a sociopath? How about that for deductive reasoning!

If you see a commentary that you think is unreasoned or too negative, can't you just ask for constructive comments without belittling your audience? I respect that you spend a lot of time on these maps and the map contest, but you come off as a massive jerk whenever people don't like your maps.
11 Oct 2016, 14:03 PM
#8
avatar of Srinidhalaya

Posts: 357

From looking at the screens, and watching the replay...

I really like the detail of this map, especially the ruined buildings. The sector layout looks solid as well. The tile textures and SPLT's are blended well, everything looks sharp. I'll play it this weekend, and give a more detailed report.

As for feedback and criticism, don't let it get to you. Take it from someone who gets a lot of negative feedback (most of my maps are designed the break game balance, most people hate them). Some people have very specific map design that they like, and nothing else. The reasons don't really matter, and if they aren't willing to address the issues and bring forward possible solutions, then just write it off.

And for what it's worth (probably not much), you're a far better mapper than I am. Cheers!
11 Oct 2016, 14:35 PM
#9
avatar of Finndeed
Strategist Badge

Posts: 612 | Subs: 1

Tric I think you went way over the top there. He has some legit points but he has not laid them out nicely or constructively. However that doesn't mean its fair or reasonable to immediately insult him personally, especially considering he never insulted you personally in his first post.

For the map I thought it was one of the better urban maps but far from perfect. The trouble is not necessarily your design but the limitations and design flaws of the games engine. Urban maps have always been pretty impossible to make play 'nicely' or balanced in this game.

Ideally you would need to have a map (any map) put into automatch AND played vigorously and tested by top players to iron out any flaws (particularly by a player like Sprice). I understand that is difficult to do, as its time consuming and hard to get top players to do anything really.

Good work, nice map.
11 Oct 2016, 15:06 PM
#10
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4


If you see a commentary that you think is unreasoned or too negative, can't you just ask for constructive comments without belittling your audience? I respect that you spend a lot of time on these maps and the map contest, but you come off as a massive jerk whenever people don't like your maps.


No I am a massive jerk to you, specifically. I get feed back every day, when I live stream, sometimes almost entirely negative. However, you seem to think that you know what you are talking about, on my maps, and on several other maps outside of my own where I first encountered your poor explanations (or complete lack thereof), if you are going to leave a comment. Do it so people can grow and gain something from it, all you do is discourage people from working on maps (or other content) if you don't give something to improve upon. The TLDR of your post is, your map sucks cause its like another map that I already didn't like and I don't like industrial style maps, so I don't like that either. Nothing to learn from there except make another soviet farmland map. Which if I reskinned this map, as a rural countryside, then you would have what to say? That it is to open I presume.

And for the other map, I had the updated version. Where as you did not.

And if you look at your comments before I laid into you, vauge and without any sort of constructed response outside of "well all the other maps are like this"

Perhaps I just take the way you structure sentences as nothing but negativity. Since I get a lot of it everyday (which is fine, gotta have something to improve on), and for that I am sorry. Perhaps if this was voice comms vs text I would understand it better, but that is kinda of my point in a "non salt" response.

Your responses are vague and offer nothing for the mapper to grow off of. You can do your post the same (with a negative view and dislike for the map), but have it be far more constructive.

EX:


Finally tried it. Not really fun to play on (why?). Long range infantry need not apply from my limited time on it. It's like Lierneux 1v1 and I automatically veto Lierneux so I guess I'm biased. But A for effort.


Here is something that would come across far better but still communicate what you want without being an essay:

Tried it, and found it not very fun for myself personally, it plays similary to another map Lierneux (or at least reminds me of it), so I don't really like it based off of that, I really don't like the industrial tile set either which ruins it for me. From my play on it as well it seems very favorable to CQC instead of traditional long range infantry.

You would get a much more factual, unemotional response from me then.

I would explain the reasoning for the buildings, clearly and concisely, why the pathing was the way it is, admit to some of my failings on the map (aka pathing for lights near the mid VP), and suggest playing it more, since CQC is only really effective when you can get a very long flank off, adding an element of play we typically on see around buildings in current automatch maps, I wanted to give it a bit more viability, but by no means make it OP.

Perhaps if you don't want to be attacked, you should take out condescending remarks like "A for effort" and shit like that, since it is just demeaning (again, you might be trying to be nice there, but from a text format it doesn't come out that way). Especially when you are one of the few comments on the map. I would also suggest getting the correct map reference down as well, since now you are saying you meant Dusseldorf, and you're reason there for the mess up, is to lazy to check, but not that lazy cause you went out of your way to put what you did.
11 Oct 2016, 15:08 PM
#11
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

From looking at the screens, and watching the replay...

I really like the detail of this map, especially the ruined buildings. The sector layout looks solid as well. The tile textures and SPLT's are blended well, everything looks sharp. I'll play it this weekend, and give a more detailed report.

As for feedback and criticism, don't let it get to you. Take it from someone who gets a lot of negative feedback (most of my maps are designed the break game balance, most people hate them). Some people have very specific map design that they like, and nothing else. The reasons don't really matter, and if they aren't willing to address the issues and bring forward possible solutions, then just write it off.

And for what it's worth (probably not much), you're a far better mapper than I am. Cheers!


TY for the kind words, but every one who makes maps is great in my eyes, I've been doing it for a decade now. :D but as finndeed also wrote, this map is far from perfect and there are definetly things that I could've done better, but at the end of the day your point stands the truest, AKA some people only like certain maps styles and nothing else (which I understand), just means you can't make everyone happy. :P
11 Oct 2016, 15:11 PM
#12
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

Tric I think you went way over the top there. He has some legit points but he has not laid them out nicely or constructively. However that doesn't mean its fair or reasonable to immediately insult him personally, especially considering he never insulted you personally in his first post.

For the map I thought it was one of the better urban maps but far from perfect. The trouble is not necessarily your design but the limitations and design flaws of the games engine. Urban maps have always been pretty impossible to make play 'nicely' or balanced in this game.

Ideally you would need to have a map (any map) put into automatch AND played vigorously and tested by top players to iron out any flaws (particularly by a player like Sprice). I understand that is difficult to do, as its time consuming and hard to get top players to do anything really.

Good work, nice map.


You are right in all your points. The map is FAR from perfect, and my outburst was over the top for sure, but I think it also has its merits as well. I am FAR from perfect just like my maps. Just wish if the time was taken to leave a response, it would at least be given enough fore thought to correctly reference maps that they are looking at, and give a reason for their disdain, or simply say. I don't like it, and leave it at that, I came to grips a long time ago that I won't please everyeone, its impossible in a map with asymmetrical balance.

All your points are again very valid, and thanks for taking the time to correct me and bring me back down to human level. :P
11 Oct 2016, 20:24 PM
#13
avatar of Finndeed
Strategist Badge

Posts: 612 | Subs: 1

I would actually quite like to see this map (with a few adjustments) in the automatch pool. Any chance to see any of the competitions maps anywhere near the live game?
11 Oct 2016, 20:33 PM
#14
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

It seems sir Tric doesn't take non constructive criticism litely. Something one should be able to bear on this platform of ignorance. I understand that hearing negativety about a beloved project is hard, but attacking people personally on their opinions is pretty harsh.

On another note, I would love a video or thread that explains in detail how you actually make these beautiful maps? I must admit that I have no clue as to how you people pull it of!
11 Oct 2016, 20:44 PM
#15
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

It seems sir Tric doesn't take non constructive criticism litely. Something one should be able to bear on this platform of ignorance. I understand that hearing negativety about a beloved project is hard, but attacking people personally on their opinions is pretty harsh.

On another note, I would love a video or thread that explains in detail how you actually make these beautiful maps? I must admit that I have no clue as to how you people pull it of!


As I said above, and in the shoutbox (4Head) all feedback is welcome, it just needs to have a point or something to work on, or I (rightly so methinks) defend it emotionally, as I am after all a human.

However the video / thread suggestion is actually something that I will be doing soon(ish) after I am able to get the funds for a new harddrive to make a video series.

I also stream the entire process of map making, from the layout to the very end, and answer any and all questions in the chat (usually long winded-ly) and try to explain it the best I can.

Hopefully at the end of this month will be the Bob Ross tribute map speed making, so that might be useful to do a timelapse vid of. :D
11 Oct 2016, 20:45 PM
#16
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

I would actually quite like to see this map (with a few adjustments) in the automatch pool. Any chance to see any of the competitions maps anywhere near the live game?


Yes I was told before the contest was even live that the top 3 1st places for the tourney would be added. If they need adjustments after the 1v1 tourney, it is up to relic to allow that to happen before they are added. Although that has not been discussed between myself, the other mappers, and relic yet.
11 Oct 2016, 21:31 PM
#17
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2016, 20:44 PMTric


As I said above, and in the shoutbox (4Head) all feedback is welcome, it just needs to have a point or something to work on, or I (rightly so methinks) defend it emotionally, as I am after all a human.

However the video / thread suggestion is actually something that I will be doing soon(ish) after I am able to get the funds for a new harddrive to make a video series.

I also stream the entire process of map making, from the layout to the very end, and answer any and all questions in the chat (usually long winded-ly) and try to explain it the best I can.

Hopefully at the end of this month will be the Bob Ross tribute map speed making, so that might be useful to do a timelapse vid of. :D


Cool I will watch your stream more often from now on!
11 Oct 2016, 21:33 PM
#18
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4



Cool I will watch your stream more often from now on!


Cool beans, so you there. :P
11 Oct 2016, 22:32 PM
#19
avatar of Srinidhalaya

Posts: 357

On another note, I would love a video or thread that explains in detail how you actually make these beautiful maps? I must admit that I have no clue as to how you people pull it of!


Check out the links in my signature. Between all of those, and the 40+ pages of threads on the Workshop Mapping Discussion, there is easily a comprehensive guide to the entire process. Maybe we can get an admin to consolidate and pin a post with all the links.
12 Oct 2016, 07:25 AM
#20
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



Check out the links in my signature. Between all of those, and the 40+ pages of threads on the Workshop Mapping Discussion, there is easily a comprehensive guide to the entire process. Maybe we can get an admin to consolidate and pin a post with all the links.


Thanks!
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