Gridkeys + WASD or not?

APM is always necessary but there's a huge difference in which percentile of the player base you can get with a certain amount of it.
If someone wants to be at the 0.1% of the player base, yeah sure having top reactions is needed. But what i was marking is the difference between, let's say top 2/10% here vs other games.

Nobody is refuting what it is optimal. As i said before:
"Limitations exists as well. People like to copy what PROs do, but they should eventually learn that not everything that "PROs" do work at all skill levels."

Why would you voluntarily choose to play in a way that is objectively inferior?

Because i'm not a pro and i'm here to just play the game at a pseudo high level or just a competitive enviroment and the loss in performance doesn't affect my enjoyment of a game?

what if you make the sensitivity so that WASD makes the screen to the opposite side of the map faster than your comfortable sensitivity of the mouse scrolling and just rebind/move to grid key three rows to the right?

If you're using anything but the minimap to do anything more than just minorly adjust your camera you are doing something seriously wrong. Scrolling across an entire map, regardless of how you do it, is incredibly slow and inefficient.

Because i'm not a pro and i'm here to just play the game at a pseudo high level or just a competitive enviroment and the loss in performance doesn't affect my enjoyment of a game?

That's all you need to say really. I have no problem with that logic, and it's a perfectly valid reason to do what you do. My problem is with people who insist that the two methods of control are mechanically equal and purely a matter of preference when that really isn't the case.

If you're using anything but the minimap to do anything more than just minorly adjust your camera you are doing something seriously wrong. Scrolling across an entire map, regardless of how you do it, is incredibly slow and inefficient.

Thanks for your replies Inverse, I am really buying what you're selling When I'm back from vacation, I'm going to ditch my WASD script (keeping middle click for tactical map). I'm really looking to improve my game in this case, I've had my fun messing about with my friends but I decided that I want to start taking this seriously and at least break into the top 200 in 1v1.

If it's okay, could I ask a couple of questions about your specific preferences?

What sensitivity do you have on your mouse, and what scroll-speed sensitivity do you have?

Are gridkeys more efficient than regular hotkeys? (I'm finding I like having 'T' as my retreat for infantry as well as reverse for tanks, the similar ideas makes it easier to remember for me)

How much do you use the tactical map? I've noticed from his stream that Shadowada uses it quite a bit; would you recommend it?

Do you use control groups often? If so, what are your preferences for the binds? I'd really like to try using them (basically I only use them for a sniper or a tank), but I often end up forgetting about them mid-match.

Also in regards to control groups; do you use a script so you can use more control groups without having to move your left hand away from numbers 1-5?

Appreciate it!

Are gridkeys more efficient than regular hotkeys? (I'm finding I like having 'T' as my retreat for infantry as well as reverse for tanks, the similar ideas makes it easier to remember for me)

In Grid keys, R is Reverse, and Retreat. Even better.

I'm a big proponent of gridkeys, it keeps keybindings really obvious across factions and units. There aren't 40 different key combinations to memorize and learn by muscle memory all over the keyboard. The only reason I see for classic being better is if you already know all the keys by heart and never make mistakes anyway.

I use a Sidewinder X3 at 2000DPI with no mouse acceleration (default 6/11 in Windows settings with Enhance Pointer Precision off and the MarkC acceleration fix applied, which I don't think really does anything but I do it anyways because I always have). I'd have to check what my in-game scroll speed is, but I try to set it to the highest speed possible for myself while still being able to keep control. Scroll speed is really personal preference though, as you practice more you'll find yourself using edge panning less and less, and you'll get a feel for whether your scroll speed is too fast or too slow, and you can adjust things to your liking.

I'd say gridkeys are more efficient simply because it requires less hand movement since all of your hotkeys are on one section of the keyboard. It also makes switching between different factions a lot easier because you only have to remember one set of hotkeys. I use gridkeys in pretty much every single game I play these days because I find the muscle memory translates nicely between titles.

Tactical map is one of the most useful control elements in CoH. It's unfortunate that CoH2's tactical map is so crowded with extra information, but it's still an invaluable tool. I usually use it to position units before engagements and set up capping after fights, while reverting back to the regular minimap during combat because it gives you the overview of the tactical map but with better precision and slightly faster movement around the map.

Control groups are great, but they're not nearly as vital in CoH as they are in other games. When I started I put every single unit on the field into a control group because it made keeping track of things easier for me, but as I got quicker and more comfortable I cut back to only putting vital units in control groups, things like vehicles, snipers, AT guns, and artillery. Something I like to do is rebind my 0 control group to the tilde (~) key, which gives me an extra easily accessible control group right beside the cluster of keys that are used for hotkeys. My usual control group setup is:

~: Scouting vehicle/secondary vehicle group
1: Primary vehicle group
2: AT guns
3: Sniper
4: Second sniper/artillery
5: Artillery if I have a second sniper, or mortar if I have artillery
6: Mortar if all other groups are in use (2 snipers and artillery on the field)

2k dpi holy shit that must feel like playing operation

It's not bad once you get used to it, and it's a good way to force yourself to learn how to be more precise. In all honesty I'd probably be more comfortable with 1600-1800DPI, but I've used this model of mouse for almost 10 years and I know exactly what it's going to do.

That's an insanely high DPI! I'm a Counter Strike player (what the hell am I doing trying to get good at CoH2?) so I run at 800 DPI 6/11 (when I'm actually playing CS I'm at 400 dpi).

Thanks a ton for your reply. I'm really looking forward to getting back and trying all this out!

You should be using a completely different DPI for CS compared to an RTS. When I play CS I use 400DPI with a sensitivity of around 1.5, but RTS games require more frequent large movements and less pixel-perfect precision. Your arm is going to get tired as hell trying to play at RTS at 400DPI with any amount of speed. You should be able to play using almost entirely wrist movements, which is very different from a game like CS where arm movement is encouraged because it leads to greater precision.

Hmm, I might actually switch back to my Logitech G502 for CoH2 then. I've been using a Zowie EC2-A for the past two years. I tend to fingertip-grip mice, except when I'm playing CS, where I palm.

Until I get access to my G502, I'm going to try to play on 1600DPI with my Zowie and see how that goes. I also need to learn Gridkeys without the WASD modifications. A couple of matches against bots, and it feels like I'm relearning the game from scratch!

Yeah, it'll take a little bit to get used to things. This video really informed my opinion on how to properly play an RTS from a mechanics perspective. There are a few Starcraft-specific things (camera location control groups, for example, aren't available in CoH and not really necessary, whereas Starcraft doesn't have a tactical map), but most of the advice is absolutely applicable to CoH. Things like which direction to draw your box when selecting units and boxing only as much as absolutely necessary, for instance, are invaluable tools when you're trying to micro multiple individual squads in a short period of time. It really just comes down to retraining your muscle memory. Once you're comfortable with it you'll find yourself playing a lot faster.

Another thing that helped me a lot personally was forcing myself to play excessively fast, even when it was unnecessary. It was really good for forcing myself to physically click and move faster. I spam a lot of useless clicks and actions early in games because once you have a few dozen units on the field and have to manage multiple engagements at once, I find it a lot easier to handle when I've already been playing fast enough to deal with things.

I'll check that video out for sure. Thanks!

Do you have any tips on getting flustered? I played a few games this evening and I lost one simply due to getting flustered; I lost too many units, forgot to repair one of my tanks, and I got rushed by an OKW blob with a Panther, that I probably could have fought back had I remembered to fix up my Cromwell...

Not really, that's something that comes with time, practice, and experience really. I found a good way to avoid that sort of feeling is to choose one generally good build order for one faction and just practice the hell out of it. It eliminates the need to really think about your strategic choices, since you'll just be minorly altering things based on your opponent's play, which gives you more mental energy to focus on playing the rest of your game as perfectly as possible.