T34 is Awkward

I am a big fan of COH, have been playing since 2006, COH2 is nice, to be frank, it is truly amazing to see COH2 is still alive and finally released,even so, coh2 still has its long way to go,i want to make coh2 more balanced, i know your guys are all busy, so nothing complicated here, i am just offering some advice for your consideration.

T34 is a little bit awkward, i believe some ppl here might have same opinion.
So first time, i want to ask Relic, what is the position of T34 in COH2?

No offense here, however, at this stage, T34 looks Awkward to me, from the stats. the Penetration of T34 is only 75, however, Penetration of P4 is 110, I know P4 costs more manpower and fuel, however, T34 only cost less 15 fuel, here is the story happened most of time, i almost share half of map with my opponent in early match, when i go T3, he goes T3, i go T34, he goes P4, there is no way i can win the combat in the rest of match, so most of time, i just go T4 and produce SU-85, coz i know, it is just a matter time he will have P4, so why not just go T4 and get some su-85 rather than T34, T3 and T4 cost same fuel anyway.
I want to make the game more variable and more balanced, otherwise, the game just get boring,here is some suggestion, Relic, for your consideration.

T34 should be able Penetrate P4, but, it still cant win P4 when it is a face-to-face combat, however, T34 can almost kill 2/3 of the P4 health, the fuel cost of T34 can be increased same as fuel cost of P4 or maybe slightly less.]

Reduced the fuel cost of Ostwind, however, ostwind could not Penetrate the T34 front armor, but can only Penetrate T34 rear armor.

now the stug 3, nobody produce stug 3 in 1v1 match, coz right now, P4 can do anything,here is the change of stug3,increase the stug 3 health, slightly increase anti-personal damage.

so the position of T34 should be like this:
1.T34 is unable to defeat P4 when just attack front armor, however, can still kill about 2/3 health of P4, player can use descent micro to cover for it.
2.T34 has about 33% possibility to Penetrate stug3 front armor,but can easily penetrate stug3 rear armor. considering T34 has its turret and mobility advantage,so in order to make german T3 more flexible, it is necessary to increase stug3 health.
3.T34 can defeat ostwind,however ostwind can do damage when hits t34 rear armor, the fuel cost of ostwind should be less.

To be more specific:
1.reduce 15% Penetration of P4, but P4 still has remarkable anti-infantry damage,Manpower cost remains 320, fuel cost reduces to 105.
2.Increase stug3 health from 480 to 530, stug3 has 50% of P4 anti-infantry damage.the manpower cost is 300, fuel cost decrease to 90.
3.ostwind manpower cost still remain 320,fuel cost reduces to 105.

now to the T34,manpower cost increase to 260, fuel cost increase to 100, increase 25% of its Penetration, T34 will only unlock ramming ability at lv1 vet,only T70 will have secure point ability which will unlock at vet 1.

all right, guys, that is all, thanks your time for reading!

(Thank the forum for eating my post, so this is now shorter)

I looked at data, yadda yadda:

Time to Field
T-34: 9.4 min
PzIV: 9.3 min
T-70: 8 min
SU-85: 10.6 min

Result: T3 generally not worth it unless you have more income than enemy (read: you are winning)

Not the first post, T-34 series needs a tweak

Build an anti-tank gun. All problems are solved.

The balance between a T34 and a PzIV is fragile at best. Any adjustments made will drive it wildly out of whack.

Comparing units and penetration values as if that's evidence... Not very efficient. It's not how this game works.

That said, I'd be interested to see how the T34 fairs with increased pen values if the Ram is pushed back to a Vet ability.

In the beta I used to spam a lot of T34's when they were only 75 fuel. They are good against infantry and I used the ramming ability to take out tanks.
This way the tier 3 building was much more useful to me than the tier 4 building was.

The game doesn't work propely right now, the tanks and late game units are not in balance at all. I see a lot of people skipping the tier 3 for soviets.

Problem now is that the T34's are way too expensive indeed for what you get, they should make them cheaper again. 75 fuel is too low however, maybe 80 or 85? The SU85 should be much less powerful, also the panther should get its monster power from coh1 back.

When they changed the tanks before release they changed the fuel cost and buffed the PZ4. They made no change to the T34's effectivness even though it was made more expensive and it's german counterpart was buffed.

As it stands the T34 is basically a light vehicle more then a tank. Everything except small arms fire hurts it and it takes a T34 longer to kill a halftrack then it does a pz4 to kill a T34.

The T34 needs to be an effective tank, right now it's a T70 with a that can take one more hit and can suicide itself to disable a tank, and if the problem is the ram ability then maybe it should be a vet ability.

Make the T-34 series feel like tank, and tweak the ram....as most ppl says.

Build an anti-tank gun. All problems are solved.

The balance between a T34 and a PzIV is fragile at best. Any adjustments made will drive it wildly out of whack.

Comparing units and penetration values as if that's evidence... Not very efficient. It's not how this game works.

That said, I'd be interested to see how the T34 fairs with increased pen values if the Ram is pushed back to a Vet ability.

that is problem when i playing 1v1, always go T2 rather than T1, if u go t1+t3, u will be in a very bad position when P4 comes out, coz there is no way to against P4 if u go T2 or T4

i hope soviet player can have more choices to decide go T3 or go T4.
even i didn't go T2,T3 has its unit to against P4, coz T34 as the most expensive unit in T3 for soviet transfer from T3 to T4, should be defeat P4 if u micro them well, just as mentioned before, maybe not as powerful as P4, but can kill two-third health of P4 when there is face-to-face combat,SU-85 is way too powerful, so soviet always go T4 to against german armor.

Give T34 upgun option to T34/85 maingun for 100 muni.

/Thread.

Problem now is that the T34's are way too expensive indeed for what you get, they should make them cheaper again. 75 fuel is too low however, maybe 80 or 85? The SU85 should be much less powerful, also the panther should get its monster power from coh1 back.

You can't make the SU-85 less powerful, because then soviets would have squat vs. PzIV and above.

Turns out you can go T1 to T3, mass guards and use that as your main form of AT. A few T70s for AI an possible one T34 and you have a fairly strong army composition. Marked target plus guards take out a P4 super fast, throw in a button for good measure and its a done deal.

Spamming, the new way to go in coh2 ...

Turns out you can go T1 to T3, mass guards and use that as your main form of AT. A few T70s for AI an possible one T34 and you have a fairly strong army composition. Marked target plus guards take out a P4 super fast, throw in a button for good measure and its a done deal.

tks for the reading, but 'mass' guard, plz define mass, 2 or 3 even more? P4 just 320manpower, guard is 360 for one, so in order to kill a P4, i have to spend more than 720 Manpower, besides, waiting for a perfect timing, spend more than 100 munition? and of course plus the casualty. more important,in real game, i doubt you have massive manpower to spam mass guard.
So if i go T1 and T3, i only have to go guard to against P4? That is just weird, what if i choose shock troops already?what is i choose doc without any call in unit at all? if the game is designed to be that linear, forget what i am saying.
the current soviet Tier building just confusing, if T3 is meant to be against infantry, T4 is only meant to be against armor, these is really no point playing 1v1 as soviet. we wanna more choice when we have fuel to build T3 or T4.
here is what happened to me in 1v1 most of time, i shared half map with my opponent in early and mid game,i go t1 or t2, german go t1 and t2,then german go t3 spam P4, if i want to against P4,the only most cost-effective way is i go T4 spam su-85, wait a minute, what if german goes t4? no worries, stick in T4 and still spam more su-85, so until the end of the game, i don't even need to go t3.
i only go t3 coz i have completely map dominance when german dont have fuel to go t3.
my point is: the relationship between T3 and T4 shouldn't be parallel,it should like T3 and T4 building of US in coh1,you guys want to design T3 and T4 of soviet as different purposes building, but it costs same fuel!
In coh1, US t3 has AT to against armor, armor car to against infantry, halftrack to support infantry, but in soviet T3, halftrack to support infantry, T70 agaisnt infantry, T34 against infantry as well, but each tier building in german has its unit to agaisnt armor or infantry.
i seriously doubt about the design, relic,who design this? i know you are trying to make something new, however,a new game does not mean get rid of all the good old stuff, something good in coh1 should remain in coh2.
at this level, the design of soviet tier building is just confused, T34 is just a small failure part of this design, u guys define T3 as anti-infantry, T4 as anti-armor, this might work in 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4 game, however, this will destroy 1v1 game.
consider this as a suggestion, thanks your time

i shared half map with my opponent in early and mid game

There's your problem. Soviets need dominant map control.

Spamming, the new way to go in coh2 ...

... Did you play vCoH?

There's your problem. Soviets need dominant map control.



... Did you play vCoH?

here it is?
i have map control, i go t3 to against infantry
i dont have map control, i go t4 to against armor.
dude, that is boring for 1v1

1v1 = Map Control.

No map control you lose.

Soviet's main strength is early map control. If you're not dominating the map in the early game you're either not playing to the faction's strength intentionally or you're being out played.

Maybe you should try playing Germans if you prefer more defensive playstyles.

Turns out you can go T1 to T3, mass guards and use that as your main form of AT. A few T70s for AI an possible one T34 and you have a fairly strong army composition. Marked target plus guards take out a P4 super fast, throw in a button for good measure and its a done deal.

And if you didn't take a GR doctrine??? Also, what if the OH-player is a genius and builds a mortar or two? Or even has AoE Inf removal in his doctrine?

Infantry doesn't work as Armor removal in this game, because by the time armor rolls onto the field they start dieing like flies thanks to the countless Inf gib abilities. While we're here: Why are there so few abilities that deal with armor? And why are the few that are there so weak?