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Relic; It's Time We Had That Talk

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18 Jul 2013, 12:07 PM
#121
avatar of OnkelSam
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4

In all fairness, the people that ventilate their criticism are the ones that pressure Relic to pressure Steam to make things happen. The likes of OnkelSam, Rogers etc. are not exactly helpful in developing and improving the game, because their contentment with the current pace of the development does not speed things up, nor does it give the Relic developers an idea of what needs to be changed/added rapidly.

Don't worry, we communicate our concerns to them in a structured and constructive manner.

What we don't do is ventilate our criticism in the way that some posters here do. Which is shouting in all anger, telling them what they have to do to avoid xy consequences. Or those who tell Relic what a poor job they have done by not doing this and this....
If you have ever been responsible for project management in a team or something similar you know that this kind of feedback will never be received well and objectively, cause it puts you in a defensive position.

Just imagine yourself in a position responsible for a project. If someone comes at you and tells you what a poor job you're doing, putting a pistol on your chest and requesting actions withing a certain timeframe. Do you listen to him objectively? I don't.
However, i am always open to any constructive feedback or suggestions, as long as the person respects that i have the overview of things that he might not be aware of. The decision whether to take the feedback into consideration or when to execute changes is on me as the project leader, not on individuals who don't know the whole picture.
18 Jul 2013, 12:24 PM
#122
avatar of alexctd

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2013, 02:07 AMDanielD


Well, that is a pretty valid complaint.

That being said if you really care about leader boards you might as well find somewhere on the internet to compare the size of your genitals to people around the world; meanwhile the real men will play in tournaments to determine whose is bigger who is best.


Sure ladders aren't as important as tournaments but that doesn't mean they have no purpose.
Ladders in SC2 aren't taken seriously but they are still a bit of fun to compare yourself with the general playerbase and it adds a bit of competition to regular automatch. It also helps you identify the rough skill level of opponents instead of the pointless rank system COH2 has in place now.
18 Jul 2013, 12:47 PM
#123
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12

In all fairness, the people that ventilate their criticism are the ones that pressure Relic to pressure Steam to make things happen. The likes of OnkelSam, Rogers etc. are not exactly helpful in developing and improving the game, because their contentment with the current pace of the development does not speed things up, nor does it give the Relic developers an idea of what needs to be changed/added rapidly.


You couldn't be more wrong. We give tons of critical feedback directly to Relic, you just don't see it.
18 Jul 2013, 13:38 PM
#124
avatar of herr anfsim

Posts: 247

I agree with the criticism regarding the lack of matchmaking options and missing lobbies. Though a gamebreaker for me, it would be ok if there was any kind of statement clarifying this issue. Right now it all seems pretty vague. I have seen no verification that its actually coming or being worked on. I dont know wether we will see this in months, years or ever. Thats a serious concerne for me, as the lack of these basic features ruins the fun for me and I have stopped playing the game.

While I do apreciate the developers feedback on the forums, the way this issue is being ignored or 'worked around' leaves me worried that they arent working on implementing basic public lobbies, and that it is a designer decition to leave them out.

I know this isnt a big issue for many of you on this forum, but I beleive it is a gamebreaker for a lot of people, and I hope they will adress this soon, as I too want this game to be great, and atract a lot of players. After all, I care enough about the game to raise my concernes.
raw
18 Jul 2013, 13:49 PM
#125
avatar of raw

Posts: 644

I hear you Marxist, I feel the same frustration when I play against strafe on live. Honestly, it wasn't on our radar until post release, which is completely my fault for not spotting it.


18 Jul 2013, 13:53 PM
#126
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

ROFL you sir have just won a free coupon (to the internet.)





18 Jul 2013, 14:01 PM
#127
avatar of rolig

Posts: 1

I love this game even though it's not perfect!

As it's been said, i wouldn't worry oo much. So far my experience has only been positive, however, i don't play multiplayer, so I can't say anything about that.

A perfect game will only be perfect after a while as players give feedback etc.

About pathing, I am aware that retreat routes are defenately not perfect though. However, I still believe that the changes that has to be made needs alot of testing and modifications during the process.

Buttom line: CoH 2 is, in my opinion, the best RTS ever!
18 Jul 2013, 14:43 PM
#128
avatar of The_Riddler

Posts: 336



You couldn't be more wrong. We give tons of critical feedback directly to Relic, you just don't see it.


Well, that is great, but I just responded to what is being said in this thread/on this forum. There is no way I can know or check what you lot are saying to Relic developers on Steam, Xfire, Teamspeak, Mumble, Ventrilo and personal messages anywhere else.
18 Jul 2013, 17:13 PM
#129
avatar of tokarev

Posts: 307



I have to disagree. Vcoh was NOT as bad as coh2 is now in its current state. Not only the balance, but the pathing, the graphics, the available features.... I agree vcoh definitely had its problems but the developers should have learned from these experiences not repeat them! You would think coh2 would come out a little more polished then its predecessor! There is no excuse for this!

I am less concerned with everyones else gripes, what really gets me mad and I feel others should be too, is the performance in coh2!!!! I have an alienware x51 and I have play with setting all low!! This is so unacceptable! Granted I dont have the BEST pc ever I would still like to play with graphics turned up a bit. If I do decide I wanna see pretty things, I pay for it dearly on snow maps. Argggggg!!!!!
12 of 15 Relic postsRelic 18 Jul 2013, 17:35 PM
#130
avatar of Noun

Posts: 454 | Subs: 9



Well, that is great, but I just responded to what is being said in this thread/on this forum. There is no way I can know or check what you lot are saying to Relic developers on Steam, Xfire, Teamspeak, Mumble, Ventrilo and personal messages anywhere else.



It's not so much that they do it in private, which is cool but we understand not everyone has a direct line to us that some of the longer serving members of the community do. The key is that they're able to do it in a constructive manner without resorting to hyperbole.

Constructive: "I paid for the game and I expect it to have Leaderboards like it says on the Steam product page."

Not Constructive: "This is another total fail on Relic. What are they hiring Boston Terriers to program things now? I'm never buying a Relic game again and I'm burning my copy of CoH 2."

Constructive: "I think that the T-70 should have a faster rate of fire."

Not Constructive: "Everyone knows that the T-70 is way UP. I can't believe Relic still hasn't fixed it! What, do they just sit at their desks and master..."

Constructive: "The Ostwind is too expensive."

Not Constructive: "LOL FU NOOBS OSTWINZ 2 XPENSY. FU. SHOOT URSELVES."


Nobody is saying that the game is perfect. We wouldn't be doing regular patches to add more content, fix bugs and adjust balance if it was. And truthfully apart from the original Elevator Action, no game has ever been perfect.

Ultimately it comes down to what sort of dialogue you as a consumer, and as a community want to have. In consumer focused industries feedback is important, and just as if we were working in a restaurant we want to make your experience as great as possible.

I have worked on games where the dev team got to the point where they just said that the forums were pointless because all they got was negative feedback no matter what. Relationships can get toxic, and when feedback stops being valuable because people are more interested in showing how angry they are, or how clever they are, then developers focus on other avenues.

I don't want that relationship to get toxic. I think it's in a really good place, but it takes work on both sides to keep it that way.

From our side we need to be engaged with our forums, and these ones. We need to listen to feedback and do our best to give you what you want in the scope of what we can do.

That doesn't mean that because you make a post saying you want a Zombie Mode we're going to run out and do that. Or that if you say X is OP we'll nerf it the next day. We can't do everything everyone says, nobody could. Especially since despite all the "everyone knows" type posts, there's never 100% agreement on anything.

If we nerf X then some people will say, "The developers never listen, they nerfed X!"

If we don't nerf X then some people will say, "The developers never listen, they didn't nerf X!"

From your end as a consumer, a fan and a member of the community how you behave is up to you. In my view you would get more out of being constructive.

18 Jul 2013, 17:53 PM
#131
avatar of PingPing

Posts: 329

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2013, 17:35 PMNoun



It's not so much that they do it in private, which is cool but we understand not everyone has a direct line to us that some of the longer serving members of the community do. The key is that they're able to do it in a constructive manner without resorting to hyperbole.



Nobody is saying that the game is perfect. We wouldn't be doing regular patches to add more content, fix bugs and adjust balance if it was. And truthfully apart from the original Elevator Action, no game has ever been perfect.

Ultimately it comes down to what sort of dialogue you as a consumer, and as a community want to have. In consumer focused industries feedback is important, and just as if we were working in a restaurant we want to make your experience as great as possible.

I have worked on games where the dev team got to the point where they just said that the forums were pointless because all they got was negative feedback no matter what. Relationships can get toxic, and when feedback stops being valuable because people are more interested in showing how angry they are, or how clever they are, then developers focus on other avenues.

I don't want that relationship to get toxic. I think it's in a really good place, but it takes work on both sides to keep it that way.

From our side we need to be engaged with our forums, and these ones. We need to listen to feedback and do our best to give you what you want in the scope of what we can do.

That doesn't mean that because you make a post saying you want a Zombie Mode we're going to run out and do that. Or that if you say X is OP we'll nerf it the next day. We can't do everything everyone says, nobody could. Especially since despite all the "everyone knows" type posts, there's never 100% agreement on anything.

If we nerf X then some people will say, "The developers never listen, they nerfed X!"

If we don't nerf X then some people will say, "The developers never listen, they didn't nerf X!"

From your end as a consumer, a fan and a member of the community how you behave is up to you. In my view you would get more out of being constructive.



Noun - I think its great that you take part here and are actively participating in the discussion.

HOWEVER - a good majority of the discussion here is about the lacking MULTI-PLAYER features of COH2.

I hate saying it - but the more you post here without addressing that specific concern - the more toxic the discussion is going to get.

We don't expect dates - roadmaps - detailed discussion etc - simply put - Will we get COH1 game making ability?

A simple "yes" or "no" will put your community at ease - that's all we ask.
18 Jul 2013, 18:05 PM
#132
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164



Noun - I think its great that you take part here and are actively participating in the discussion.

HOWEVER - a good majority of the discussion here is about the lacking MULTI-PLAYER features of COH2.

I hate saying it - but the more you post here without addressing that specific concern - the more toxic the discussion is going to get.

We don't expect dates - roadmaps - detailed discussion etc - simply put - Will we get COH1 game making ability?

A simple "yes" or "no" will put your community at ease - that's all we ask.


and you already got the answer about 100 times.
18 Jul 2013, 18:09 PM
#133
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

I think Noun alluded to this earlier in the thread, but using "we" isn't really suitable. Speak for yourself and people are less inclined to disregard you as a wackjob.

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2013, 17:35 PMNoun
"LOL FU NOOBS OSTWINZ 2 XPENSY. FU. SHOOT URSELVES."


Fite me IRL bro, I swear on me mum's life I will deck u.
13 of 15 Relic postsRelic 18 Jul 2013, 18:10 PM
#134
avatar of Noun

Posts: 454 | Subs: 9

HOWEVER - a good majority of the discussion here is about the lacking MULTI-PLAYER features of COH2.

I hate saying it - but the more you post here without addressing that specific concern - the more toxic the discussion is going to get.

We don't expect dates - roadmaps - detailed discussion etc - simply put - Will we get COH1 game making ability?



As I say we don't talk about new features until they're ready to go. We're talking about Leaderboards because they were promised for launch and we've dropped the ball on that.

Beyond that we're not talking about what's coming next.

Having said that there are multi-player game creation features in CoH 2. You can do a comp stomp. You can play annihilate.

Will be be expanding on that functionality? We're not talking about that at this point.
18 Jul 2013, 18:11 PM
#135
avatar of PingPing

Posts: 329

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2013, 18:05 PMcr4wler


and you already got the answer about 100 times.


If we had I haven't seen it - nor have the other posters on the thread.

Maybe you should link us to where it's specifically said and then we'll ALL be happy.

All that's been said is "Lobby's" and "Leaderboards".

I asked a specific - SIMPLE question - I've asked it FIVE times on this thread - all simply asking for a "yes" or "no" answer.

And its never been addressed.

So I believe you're incorrect in that it's been "answered".
18 Jul 2013, 18:12 PM
#136
avatar of PingPing

Posts: 329

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2013, 18:10 PMNoun



As I say we don't talk about new features until they're ready to go. We're talking about Leaderboards because they were promised for launch and we've dropped the ball on that.

Beyond that we're not talking about what's coming next.

Having said that there are multi-player game creation features in CoH 2. You can do a comp stomp. You can play annihilate.

Will be be expanding on that functionality? We're not talking about that at this point.


Noun - I have to say thank you for at least trying to answer it.

Its not the answer I was hoping for, but at least you addressed it.

I do sincerely thank you for that though.
18 Jul 2013, 18:13 PM
#137
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

I think what he's upset about is the lack of public custom lobbies.

As I've mentioned, being forced to go through what is, in effect, a third part in order to play a non-Ladder game is pretty absurd for an RTS game. This is especially considering both vCoH and DoWII had these functions(And DoWI, but that's a long while back).

I would assume those things will come in time, something that's developed in between the major projects.
18 Jul 2013, 18:21 PM
#138
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

Ill fight all you nerds. At once.... giving you each a free swing..with a morning star...
18 Jul 2013, 18:21 PM
#139
avatar of PingPing

Posts: 329

I think Noun alluded to this earlier in the thread, but using "we" isn't really suitable. Speak for yourself and people are less inclined to disregard you as a wackjob.



Fite me IRL bro, I swear on me mum's life I will deck u.


That directed at me?

Go count how many individual posters on this thread have asked for the very same thing - I'm sure you'll note there's more than one.

Hence the use of the word "WE" is correct - if it were just me with the sole concern - then it would be "I".
18 Jul 2013, 18:26 PM
#140
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164



Noun - I have to say thank you for at least trying to answer it.

Its not the answer I was hoping for, but at least you addressed it.

I do sincerely thank you for that though.


it literally took me like 10 seconds to find these 2 interviews where for example replay functionalities and modding tools are mentioned. there are literally thousands of other sources. pretty much all fathomable questions have been adressed at some point or another (though i have to admit, the beta forums are gone now, which would have been another great source for information).
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