Dealing with Axis lategame as USF in teamgames

Hey folks,

I'm looking for advice on dealing with the Axis lategame as the United States Forces in team games (3vs3 and 4vs4). I realize that, arguably, the USF is the weakest faction in team games due to their lack of heavy hitting tanks (which is partially negated by the Pershing), but I still enjoy playing USF the most.

Disclaimer: I don't play 1vs1, and only occasionally play 2vs2's (l2p scrub, I know). I play 3vs3's and 4vs4's with an arranged team, and we generally do decently. However, when we're facing experienced players that use heavy tank destroyers we mostly lose.

Here's a replay of a recent game we played (for reference, we're about ladder rank 300, while the enemy team was around ladder rank 150 in AT 3vs3). I'd really appreciate some advice on how I could've better dealt with the enemy tanks, and how I could've done better to win us the game. I played decently in the early game, but fell apart later on as I lost more and more squads.

Things I noticed I did wrong myself:
1) I was way too late buying bars (22 minutes in).
2) I was floating too much fuel to get a Pershing (as I didn't have the manpower to spare).
3) I should've dealt with the Pak 43 (which got to vet 4) earlier.
4) I didn't build any caches.

Things that went wrong:
1) Around 37:00 the Axis heavy tank blobs start coming in (Jagdtiger, King Tiger, etc.).
2) Around 39:00 two veterancy 3 rifles were killed by a Stuka dive bomb due to my negligence.
3) Around 41:00 I shouldn't have lost the Pershing.

Struggles:
1) The Jagdtiger locking down the center.
2) The Pak 43 locking down the bottom and the center.
3) Gardening Stuka dive bombs.
4) Inability to finish off the King Tiger.
5) Inability to finish off the veterancy 5 Obersoldaten.

From 41:00 onward things just started going really bad for me.

Any advice is much appreciated (even tips for the early-mid game), but especially dealing with the lategame.

Thank you in advance!

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  Banana Zed Handbanana Banananign

  Melchett MarkvA Praetorian

  3vs3 AT - Across the Rhine - USF Advice

  by: MarkvA map: Across the Rhine

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Hey folks,

I'm looking for advice on dealing with the Axis lategame as the United States Forces in team games (3vs3 and 4vs4). I realize that, arguably, the USF is the weakest faction in team games due to their lack of heavy hitting tanks (which is partially negated by the Pershing), but I still enjoy playing USF the most.

Disclaimer: I don't play 1vs1, and only occasionally play 2vs2's (l2p scrub, I know). I play 3vs3's and 4vs4's with an arranged team, and we generally do decently. However, when we're facing experienced players that use heavy tank destroyers we mostly lose.

Here's a replay of a recent game we played (for reference, we're about ladder rank 300, while the enemy team was around ladder rank 150 in AT 3vs3). I'd really appreciate some advice on how I could've better dealt with the enemy tanks, and how I could've done better to win us the game. I played decently in the early game, but fell apart later on as I lost more and more squads.

Things I noticed I did wrong myself:
1) I was way too late buying bars (22 minutes in).
2) I was floating too much fuel to get a Pershing (as I didn't have the manpower to spare).
3) I should've dealt with the Pak 43 (which got to vet 4) earlier.
4) I didn't build any caches.

Things that went wrong:
1) Around 37:00 the Axis heavy tank blobs start coming in (Jagdtiger, King Tiger, etc.).
2) Around 39:00 two veterancy 3 rifles were killed by a Stuka dive bomb due to my negligence.
3) Around 41:00 I shouldn't have lost the Pershing.

Struggles:
1) The Jagdtiger locking down the center.
2) The Pak 43 locking down the bottom and the center.
3) Gardening Stuka dive bombs.
4) Inability to finish off the King Tiger.
5) Inability to finish off the veterancy 5 Obersoldaten.

From 41:00 onward things just started going really bad for me.

Any advice is much appreciated (even tips for the early-mid game), but especially dealing with the lategame.

Thank you in advance!

The replay: https://www.coh2.org/replay/53298/3vs3-at-across-the-rhine-usf-advice.

When you post it here, we can find it faster

https://www.coh2.org/forum/109/replay-reviews

I will look on it, but now i'm gonna sleep.

ill just move it there, hopefully you dont mind op

When you post it here, we can find it faster

https://www.coh2.org/forum/109/replay-reviews

I will look on it, but now i'm gonna sleep.

Thanks!

ill just move it there, hopefully you dont mind op

Go for it - wasn't even aware that section existed!

I agree with the stuff you allready said (about the mistakes).

Your first attack south was ok. There was no chance because m42 and okw inf vs you.

A) Min. 5 you have 95 fuel and 500 manpower. Get Ambulance and Captain earlier.

B) In 2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4 after 3-4 Rifles get a) your Ambulance b) bring it to the front! Not in your base

C)Min 6-7. You have built your Captain but his first enemie Contatc is min 11!

D) Min 8.19 You built a pakhowi. You could build a stuart for that. You have at this time only our Captain vs tanks. Also when you get a Stuart you force enemie to go for antitank.

E) Min 14 you try to attack the south again. Thats way too late. They had all the time only 1 mg there.

F) You used your Major in the base. That makes no real sense. Bring him and your ambulance more to the front. ( For less retread-way)

G) Why Pershing? Its a only longrange map. Without many buildings/ viewblockers. Definitively go Calliope on this map!

H) If you go Pershing on a map, get 2 ET with bazookas. You need them on vet 3 for faster repair.

I) You lost too much manpower at all 134/274 kill/death

J) As allies I / we ban this map allways. Its an axis map. You can be happy, that enemies did not went for snipers

K) Just 1 thing to your Brit friends. Build Firefly with Tulips!!!!!!!!!! Or Piats on INF.

Atm the target /mission for USA is to kill enemie Inf and medium tanks. About the superheavy Tanks from Axis your Britsmate have to care and control.

I hope I could help you

Caliopes in every single game.

I agree with the stuff you allready said (about the mistakes).

Your first attack south was ok. There was no chance because m42 and okw inf vs you.

A) Min. 5 you have 95 fuel and 500 manpower. Get Ambulance and Captain earlier.

B) In 2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4 after 3-4 Rifles get a) your Ambulance b) bring it to the front! Not in your base

C)Min 6-7. You have built your Captain but his first enemie Contatc is min 11!

D) Min 8.19 You built a pakhowi. You could build a stuart for that. You have at this time only our Captain vs tanks. Also when you get a Stuart you force enemie to go for antitank.

E) Min 14 you try to attack the south again. Thats way too late. They had all the time only 1 mg there.

F) You used your Major in the base. That makes no real sense. Bring him and your ambulance more to the front. ( For less retread-way)

G) Why Pershing? Its a only longrange map. Without many buildings/ viewblockers. Definitively go Calliope on this map!

H) If you go Pershing on a map, get 2 ET with bazookas. You need them on vet 3 for faster repair.

I) You lost too much manpower at all 134/274 kill/death

J) As allies I / we ban this map allways. Its an axis map. You can be happy, that enemies did not went for snipers

K) Just 1 thing to your Brit friends. Build Firefly with Tulips!!!!!!!!!! Or Piats on INF.

Atm the target /mission for USA is to kill enemie Inf and medium tanks. About the superheavy Tanks from Axis your Britsmate have to care and control.

I hope I could help you

Thank you very much for the detailed feedback, it's much appreciated! To respond to your points:

I'll definitely work on A, B, C, E. Unfortunately enough I've had more than a few wipes because of forward retreat points due to players dropping a Panzerwerfer or a Stuka dive bomb on it on retreat, which is unavoidable. I prefer not taking the risk, but in the early game (pre-dive bomb) I think I should do this. This is also the reason I kept the Major in the base.

I always find D a bit of an issue due to the overload of Panzerschrecks on the Volks completely shutting down light vehicles. I can usually keep my Stuart alive until the Pershing or Jacksons come in, but they don't really pay for themselves. This'll be solved when the balance patch is out.

I agree with you that the Pershing wasn't the right choice here - I definitely should've went Calliope. That also would've helped with I as well.

And I'll ask my friends to get more Firefly Tulips - although I believe I've mentioned it in the past.

Thanks again! I'll try to worry a little bit less about super heavy tanks and let my allies deal with them (and support them if need be).

Caliopes in every single game.

Eh, the Wehrmacht player bought about three or four Panzerwerfers, and they were turtling pretty hard with Pak 43's, bunkers and a Jagdtiger. A Calliope is pretty excusable in that case.

Eh, the Wehrmacht player bought about three or four Panzerwerfers, and they were turtling pretty hard with Pak 43's, bunkers and a Jagdtiger. A Calliope is pretty excusable in that case.

You as a team should never allow wehr to get werfers, more so - amass them. Calliopes in most cases end games by crushing whatever mp-based AT axis have, which renders them helpless against tanks. Also, caliopes kill werfers and OKW hqs quite easily.

You as a team should never allow wehr to get werfers, more so - amass them. Calliopes in most cases end games by crushing whatever mp-based AT axis have, which renders them helpless against tanks. Also, caliopes kill werfers and OKW hqs quite easily.

We did try to counter them, but you're right, we probably should've pushed against them more aggressively. I think we only managed to kill two out of four Panzerwerfers. As it's a 56 minute game though, the Wehr player had plenty of opportunities to buy more ones.

In the case of this game though, a Calliope definitely could've dealt with the Pak 43. I regret not getting it now. It probably could've turned the game around at the end.