I don't get why Brits are still receiving buffs

Giant lies, damned lies and statistics scrub here, what exactly does the "Probability" portion on the left stand for?

For the basic usage you do the following:

In order to read the winning chance for the duel in this graph, you do the following:
- Find the range you are interested in, on the x-axis (let's say we are interested in range 10)
- Squint your eyes, and find out where the red bars meet the green bars.
- Then, draw a line towards the y-axis (probability)

In the case of range 10, you can see that the probability that the green tank wins is 0.6.

This means that the Cromwell tank has a 60% chance of winning an encounter vs P4 at range 10.
(Perhaps that doesn't always reflect reality, since you have scatter shots, moving tanks, paks, etc)

For more advanced usage, the colour shades represent how much HP the winning tank will have after the losing tank dies. For instance, darkest green means that the winning tank was 1 shot away from being wiped (i.e., narrow victory). The next-brightest hue represents that the tank was 2 shots away from being wiped.

Again, you follow the procedure outlined in basic usage.
- For instanc,e at range 10, the Cromwell tank has 30% chance of having 360 HP (2 hits) or more after winning a fight.

Completely ignored the fact that comet can wipe infantry..panther can maybe kill a single model with difficulty in 10 seconds.The panther gun is dud.And allied TD pen increase only make its armor advantage less relevant.

I wouldn't call the panthers gun a dud but it sure doesn't do much to infantry but yeah the comet definitely wrecks infantry really hard to the point where I dont think either of these tanks costs reflect their performance.

I wouldn't call the panthers gun a dud but it sure doesn't do much to infantry but yeah the comet definitely wrecks infantry really hard to the point where I dont think either of these tanks costs reflect their performance.

If you are gonna be hugging cover when fighting an AOE tank, you are gonna have a bad time. Meanwhile, if you hug cover against an accuracy based vehicle, you will be fine. Example: T70 vs Luch.

AI from Comet vs PV is EQUAL when they are out of cover with spread out unit formations. But when you have squad which like to hug to each other (Falls for example) you'll have a bad time.
This also means that PV AI can be mitigated by using cover at oppose to Comet. There's also the difference between prolonged damage and alpha damage.

I wouldn't call the panthers gun a dud but it sure doesn't do much to infantry but yeah the comet definitely wrecks infantry really hard to the point where I dont think either of these tanks costs reflect their performance.

The Panthers are intended as a heavy Tank Destroyer, not anti everything tank.
Thats the role of the Tiger.

Every time I see a team mate that fields panthers against a blob I cringe.

I have calculated the probabilities of winning for this engagement, and it looks like this:

However, to be fair. On the other hand, things are unfair when it comes to Cromwells vs P4's. The question is, by how much?

How do you think fights play out in 1v1 if both tanks remain stationary?
- When both tanks are at Vet0
- When both tanks are at Vet3

You can discover the answer here:
(Tip: Click on the images to see them side-by-side)
Show Spoiler

How do you think the fight will play out post-Cromwell nerfs?
Show Spoiler

Note that while the images show that the Cromwell should have been made weaker relative to the P4, nerfing the Cromwell target size was not the only way to go:
- We could have nerfed a different stat (e.g., Cromwell armour, some of the reload bonuses)
- We could have buffed P4 penetration instead

(No. Cromwells vs Panthers don't stand a chance. Even Vet3 Cromwells vs Vet0 Panthers).

did you use a formula? formula doesn't really take into account stray shot hitting.

Every time I see a team mate that fields panthers against a blob I cringe.

Panthers actually work versus blobs. They are the best Axis vehicle for infantry crushing. Though I would rather call this a gimmick.

What if relic put the tiger in t4 for a non doc heavy tank for ostheer and put the panther as 8 to 10 cp callin for some commanders

What if relic put the tiger in t4 for a non doc heavy tank for ostheer and put the panther as 8 to 10 cp callin for some commanders

I can get behind this!

I like the diversity of playstyle this game has to offer while keeping the mechanics quite balanced , Relic did an awsome job.. there are some who dont have patience or aptitude to figure out counters or adapt playstyles.. like OP of this thread the kind of attitude that wont get you ahead in life coz your stuck in loop of complaining ...

did you use a formula? formula doesn't really take into account stray shot hitting.

I didn't take stray shot hitting into account. However, if I knew the probability of stray-shot hitting per range, I could integrate it into the formula.

yeah i dont get why dual bren tommies rape everything maybe a not a vet 5 obers...i think thye should only get cover bonus from green not yellow cover and limit the brens to 1 just like grens and same for rifles....i think then standard infantry will be balanced across all factions

This topic lols.

There taking the best thing the cromwell had away which was crushing.
Panther is not an AI tank never will be. Panther stats is overall better than comets everything except its main gun dmg to infantry. Comets in general will lose in a slug out against panthers they have a hard time pening the front of panthers.

I'm all for getting rid of emplacements if relic gets rid of okws schwer hq and there 100000 hit point early fwd retreat point.

I didn't take stray shot hitting into account. However, if I knew the probability of stray-shot hitting per range, I could integrate it into the formula.

stray shot is important. Your calculation is deeply faulted if it doesn't accurately take into account stray shot.

I test panzer4 vs cromwell in game, and the panzer4 won 6 out of 10. In addition, the panzer 4 rarely missed when both tanks are stationary. It was mostly down to whose penetration and armor were better.

https://www.coh2.org/replay/53537/panzer4-vs-cromwell-test

yeah i dont get why dual bren tommies rape everything maybe a not a vet 5 obers...i think thye should only get cover bonus from green not yellow cover and limit the brens to 1 just like grens and same for rifles....i think then standard infantry will be balanced across all factions

Someone may have to corect me but if i'm not mistaken, IS only get bonus in green cover while in yellow cover, they are who they really are and they get a de-buff when out of cover. I think i had read it somewhere but couldn't seem to remember where.

stray shot is important. Your calculation is deeply faulted if it doesn't accurately take into account stray shot.

I test panzer4 vs cromwell in game, and the panzer4 won 6 out of 10. In addition, the panzer 4 rarely missed when both tanks are stationary. It was mostly down to whose penetration and armor were better.

https://www.coh2.org/replay/53537/panzer4-vs-cromwell-test

I see! At the moment I don't have any estimates what the scatter-specific chance to hit looks like. However, I have plans of calculating this in the near future:
- Find a map with distances annotated
- Modify all tanks so that they have 0% accuracy (thus, only scatter hits occur)
- Gather statistics for each range (like at least 30 repetitions for each range I want, and each scatter gun)

However, before I do this, I would first like to classify guns into scatter categories (vertical/horizontal/offset):
- German guns
- Brit guns
- Soviet guns
- Drunken soviet gunner guns

That way I don't have to do the statistics gathering manually for every pair of tanks.

Thanks for all the trouble you have gotten into, to dig up that test!

- Drunken soviet gunner guns

IS-2 gunner says hello.