review requested 2v2 on Rzhev

2v2 random (I played USF as "Grumpy") against Taylor Swift and Paul

Normally these two clown me and and random teammate. This started out the same but we came back and were starting to get the upper hand, until the Brumbar, SturmTiger and Elefant came out.

Some of the questions I have:
Should I have went Major sooner and got a Jackson sooner or was it okay to try to hold out for Pershing?
If I hold out for the Pershing, how do I deal with the Brumbar (sp?)
How should we have dislodged the Brumbar and Elefant from the central VP? It was really difficult trying to get the outside two VP and keep them for any length of time.
Any tips for avoiding the SturmTiger?

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  HiI'mPaul!69#NWA Taylor Swift

  盟军虐我千百遍 Grumpy

  review requested 2v2 on Rzhev

  by: Grumpy map: Rzhev Winter

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My best advice: veto.

This map is just anti usf really. you cant avoid sturmtiger shots, wherever the sturmtiger is, you simply lose control of that area or risk getting money shotted at every push. If its mid, gg, you'll never get that VP.
if its on the far VPs, you leave your self open to being cut down on retreat by a flank, or rekt by the sturmtiger anyway(unless its your 'flank' if you know what i mean, but even then its trivially easy to push a USF frontline with a sturmtiger/whatever okw has)

the ice is a bitch as well. The map just sucks.

your only realistic option is to just steamroll early if you dont have calliopes(which is USF's only function late game on a map like this)
Pershing and jacksons straight up lose to elefants and brummbars here, doesnt matter how well microed. expensive vetted infantry gets wiped left and right in a war of arty and attrition, and usually you'll lose with 300 fuel left after a 3 hour game because you're bleeding like a nutcase on top of it all.

Brits and soviets fare much better here as they have much better 'standoff map' options: cheaper infantry (5 man vet 3 sapper spam, conscripts, relief infantry anyone?)

Soviets have much more cost effective arty with the katyusha(can have 2 katys for one calliope), better heavy tank, more spammable mediums(when in doubt create a t34 train), spammable little TD's, etc.

Brits have the firefly(counters sturmtiger) ,mattress(can absoulutely molest the areas around the munitions points and is basically spammable), pits (to win skirmishes for your sappers on vps)

Ideally you want a double brit if you want to win here as allies. otherwise just veto it and save yourself the hell of late game rzhev.

In 2v2 random as USF, which maps do you veto? I veto Gelsenkirchen, Dusseldorf, Semoiskiy, Rails and Metal, and Chateau for various reasons. I would most likely remove the veto from Gelsenkirchen but like having that one vetoed because it feels like it requires more teamwork than I usually get when playing random.

I have Tactical Support loaded out for open maps, Rifle and Heavy Calvary for other maps. On this game, I might have taken Priests if I had them but usually like Tatical Support better than Infantry. What do you load out for randoms?

In 2v2 random as USF, which maps do you veto? I veto Gelsenkirchen, Dusseldorf, Semoiskiy, Rails and Metal, and Chateau for various reasons. I would most likely remove the veto from Gelsenkirchen but like having that one vetoed because it feels like it requires more teamwork than I usually get when playing random.

I have Tactical Support loaded out for open maps, Rifle and Heavy Calvary for other maps. On this game, I might have taken Priests if I had them but usually like Tatical Support better than Infantry. What do you load out for randoms?

gelsen and dussel are all maps that favor usf. Gelsen is huge and allows for great building rushes and uncontested light vehicle play, like usf is a nightmare there. Dussel is thompson heaven. Semoiskiy isnt bad at all either.


So i would take your vetoes off those.

My vetoes for randumb and AT are Rails, Luvnest, Rhine, rzhev, and then pick and choice between kharkov or minsk. though it usually goes to kharkov if im playing USF.

I run a pretty standard loadout. airborne, armor, pershing, with 50 cal bulletins.

Airborne lacks the arty obviously so I usually go for it when I have a teammate that can cover that department, or I feel confident/ feel good against my opponents.

Armor is my favorite, as its gotten me almost all of my wins against rank 25 or higher teams in random. M10s allow for serious carrying and big dick plays if you lack fuel during a game for any reason(bad teammate, cutoff centric map, bad start, etc.)
You can crush blobs, spam them like crazy, kill 'fast p4s' or that luchs that terrorizing your teammate, and other nuisances that plague randoms, and still have the fuel for LT+CPT which gives access to everything you'll 'need'.

Not needing major is SO huge.

Also lets say you have a really bad british teammate that just builds a massive simcity in the corner of the map and the enemy builds 100 stukas to counter him,
This is where you come in with the M10 pain train and have a field day and win the game.

I cannot seem to make the calliope(or priest, really.) work the same way regarding carrying, if it doesnt wipe the enemies entire army in one barrage its a huge pain. Considering its cost and popcap hit... it actually ends up making it harder to carry unless your first barrage is godlike. The quad with a stuart may work if you wanna finish the game fast though.

the pershing to me is too easily countered in 2v2 randoms, mainly if your team is having a bad game, you just wont have the right income to throw out your back cough cough get the job done. so If I do go pershing, its usually in AT where I can TRUST my teammate to hold the fuel or hold their own.

yea the 2v2 map pool needs a lot of love, veto

gelsen and dussel are all maps that favor usf. Gelsen is huge and allows for great building rushes and uncontested light vehicle play, like usf is a nightmare there. Dussel is thompson heaven. Semoiskiy isnt bad at all either.

....
the pershing to me is too easily countered in 2v2 randoms, mainly if your team is having a bad game, you just wont have the right income to throw out your back cough cough get the job done. so If I do go pershing, its usually in AT where I can TRUST my teammate to hold the fuel or hold their own.

Thanks again. I'll try that loadout and see how it works for me.

With M10's, do you play conservatively with them until you get 3 or more and then try to swarm?

Thanks again. I'll try that loadout and see how it works for me.

With M10's, do you play conservatively with them until you get 3 or more and then try to swarm?

With your first and second ones play conservative. Only dive if you're 100% sure you're gonna trade favorably. It's still a tank destroyer and it's pretty decent at plucking away, at least "early on"

Then once you have a train, as in yeah 3-4-5-6-7-8 of them just go crazy and swarm but the thing with that is you have to be very cautious of what you're teammates doing and what you're enemies building. if they have nothing but Pumas and panzer 4s, rocket arty, normal Panthers, then you can just spam m10s away...just make sure you flank because if they have a clue they'll just kite you into paks

But if you're fighting tigers, KT, command panther you're gonna need jacksons period. So don't just keep spamming M10s to their death, I sometimes make the mistake of continuing to trash m10s at heavies and pak walls and that quickly devolves into losing the game.

So just get a feel for when you need to stop the spam and get a real TD, and when you need to keep up the spam to keep your team momentum going. if you're communicating well with your teammate then you may be able to get away with some serious spam while your teammate gets su85s, fireflies, is2 etc, and from there, the M10 scales stupidly well alongside those fellow allied units.

...

I run a pretty standard loadout. airborne, armor, pershing, with 50 cal bulletins.

....

Also lets say you have a really bad british teammate that just builds a massive simcity in the corner of the map and the enemy builds 100 stukas to counter him,
This is where you come in with the M10 pain train and have a field day and win the game.

.....

I cannot seem to make the calliope(or priest, really.) work the same way regarding carrying, if it doesnt wipe the enemies entire army in one barrage its a huge pain. Considering its cost and popcap hit... it actually ends up making it harder to carry unless your first barrage is godlike. The quad with a stuart may work if you wanna finish the game fast though.
...

50 cal bulletins? Do you often go lieutenant? If so, do you back tech to get him? I've tried going LT several times over the last week and it hasn't gone well.

If you lost enough games to lower your elo to 400 or so, you would find out what bad British teammates are (like spamming commandos on Hamlet, then using them against JLI + Obers at long range,or building bofors on center vp of Karkov, while under fire from 2-3 squads of Volks and eating a flame nade and backing up that brilliant decision by putting the mortar pit at the intersection of the roads so that the pit almost, but not completely blocks vehicle traffic)

As far as the Calliope goes, it works okay for me against people who blob, but you probably don't see as much of that at your level.

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ps - on urban maps, are you talking Thompsons on vehicle crews, paras, or rangers?

i am pretty sure he means rangers or paras, vehicle crews are still meh LUL

well based off ur screenshot it looks like youre just eating rifle nades from grens. So green cover and support it. the bulletins help alot, it quickly becomes one of the best MG's honestly(Better than vickers and on par with maxpin)
If it gets wiped then he either flanked you or spammed you with like 2 rifle nades.

but anyway I always go lt+cpt or cpt+LT vs in 2v2,

LT 1st if I have the tempo, captain 1st if there needs to be a cumback.
the blobs are just waaaaaaay too stronk and annoying to deal with without an MG/suppression of some sort, and a rushed sherman in the current patch isn't worth the trouble micro wise with all the cancer shreks running around, IN MY humble opinion.

If you float doing LT CPT(I often do.) just build caches for your teammate/ your later major tech. Wouldnt spam team weapons because they can just stuka or werf you.

in general If I got major in 2v2 its for the jackson. maybe the FRP if im floating fuel or something. Nothing else in that tier is worth its salt vs OKW, which of course you often see.
If you need a real battle tank go LT CPT pershing doc.


and ps, im talking any thompson you like. paras, rangers, crews. In my docs I always have some sort of thompson.