'Radical' gameplay changes could turn into a massive failure

Every faction has a unique character, unique weaknesses and obvious strengths. If one player is frustrated by some weaknesses, he can switch to the other 4 factions already available and play as them. There is no point making everything similar and copy pasta.


If OKW can't have stock HMGs that is because they are an aggressive faction. Placing HMGs in important buildings and waiting for elite, powerful units or vehicles is not their thing. Furthermore they have an interesting, unique suppression platform, the AAHT. IF you feel they need a reliable stock suppression unit then you can fix that thing and make it useful. The also have the Falk HQ, which countering it requires a combined, well thought out effort to take down.

Same thing can be said about UKF. They have the most dominant mid/and late game and best combined units. Free UC and powerful tommies (early game at least) just undermines their design philosophy.


Buffs and changes which don't make any sense when taking the said units role into perspective:


- Penals: They are arifle based inf. The SU rifle inf are not very accurate. Penals exist to fill that void. They are already strong at close range, decent at mid but awful at long range. Increasing their long range accuracy, or making them more durable, giving them LMGs all would have been much better steps towards improving them. But PPSH?! We have shocks, Parties, and cons for that.


- Volks: Another rifle based inf, having a decent long range accuracy and are supposed to be a mere capping unit with highly useful abilities. Think of them as ostruppen with more utilities. Giving volks STGs will kill the enthusiasm to use sturmpios to their maximum effectiveness. STG obers are already meh and they will be totally forgotten.

- Arty: There are some buffs for arty units/abilities which were not needed at all. There are huge issues with arty being fully dominant in 2v2+ game modes. We certaintly don't need to amplify those issues.

- Minimization or actually removal of RNG:The most prevalent and eenjoyable factor in CoH2. Having a full health, A-Moved volks wiped by a TM35 created a funny experience, and a teaching one for the guy who lost his unit. Rng creates an uncertanity atmosphere in game which I think is greate and adds to the strategic depth. Removing it or minimizing it will take away one of the best characteristics of CoH2.

any points OP mentioned aside, i believe that removing schrecks from volks is, for instance, a classic example of homogenizing factions. the same applies to the mg34 change.

why cant okw have schrecks, why do they have to function the same as ostheer AT wise, why do they need a stock mg all of a sudden??

some may argue that schrecks on volks are BS or mg's should be standard, but all you really do is aligning a faction, okw in this example, to your ostheer faction ideal.

relic has already removed the resource penalty, they really dont need to get rid of unique flavour even more.

any points OP mentioned aside, i believe that removing schrecks from volks is, for instance, a classic example of homogenizing factions. the same applies to the mg34 change.

why cant okw have schrecks, why do they have to function the same as ostheer AT wise, why do they need a stock mg all of a sudden??

some may argue that schrecks on volks are BS or mg's should be standard, but all you really do is aligning a faction, okw in this example, to your ostheer faction ideal.

relic already has removed the resource penalty, they really dont need to get rid of unique flavour even more.

While I agree with the idea that homogenizing factions is a bad idea, Volks with shreks promote bad gameplay. The faction design for OKW was already pretty lack luster at the start (even before the "overhaul"). The sad thing is between USF and OKW both being pretty blobby factions the only way to fix this is to give more tools for antiblobs. As such OKW gets the MG34/42.


Another way to fix this (and many have said it) is to make cover more important, adjust received accuracy on units in close proximity (as it was in coh1). However Relic seems less inclined to adjust any of the sort and would rather go for MG buffs.
). However Relic seems less inclined to adjust any of the sort and would rather go for MG buffs.

Where's the "yes, all of them do" option?

Where's the "yes, all of them do" option?

That wouldn't be realistic.

That wouldn't be realistic.

Then people wouldn't vote for it. Learn2democracy.

Where's the "yes, all of them do" option?

What, you want an unbiased poll? Silly, this is the balance section! If it's not bias, it's not balance™

What, you want an unbiased poll? Silly, this is the balance section! If it's not bias, it's not balance™

To begin with, having that opinion ( "yes, all of them do" ) screams bias towards the mod, and you want all of the changes implemented.


Fear not though, you could always ask a mod to add that and then we could get back on topic (hopefully).

any points OP mentioned aside, i believe that removing schrecks from volks is, for instance, a classic example of homogenizing factions. the same applies to the mg34 change.

why cant okw have schrecks, why do they have to function the same as ostheer AT wise, why do they need a stock mg all of a sudden??

some may argue that schrecks on volks are BS or mg's should be standard, but all you really do is aligning a faction, okw in this example, to your ostheer faction ideal.

relic has already removed the resource penalty, they really dont need to get rid of unique flavour even more.

As someone who was always fascinated by OKW unique design I was VEHEMENTLY against the removal of penalties and keeping that special flavour feel (hell, I was even sad to see the beta truck placement crap go away). Even so, I applaud the Schreck removal, because the utter domination of Schreck spam in team games and the frustration / meta lockdowns it causes outweighs all other concerns in my mind, including faction homogenization.

But your point stands. CoH2 armies always start off extremely well designed but then they get balanced into neutrality. There was a way to balance OKW even with resource penalty. There was a way to balance Schreck without removing it altogether (put it on Sturmpios, for whom it was originally designed before AA HT spam in the WFA alpha made them move it to Volks. This was back when Puppschens were completely different and entire US tech structure was different as well.)

I am not sure how I feel regarding the nondoctrinal MG. On the one hand, every faction should be able to have reliable antiblob counters. On the other, there's no other heavy HMG a German faction could have.

Teching is different enough for the 2 German factions to be distinct, but man, OKW as originally designed was SO MUCH COOLER than it is now.

On the other hand, 'Radical' gameplay changes could turn into a massive success.

I don't think anyone can deny the merit of actually testing changes. CoH2 is certainly no golden cow.

any points OP mentioned aside, i believe that removing schrecks from volks is, for instance, a classic example of homogenizing factions. the same applies to the mg34 change.

why cant okw have schrecks, why do they have to function the same as ostheer AT wise, why do they need a stock mg all of a sudden??

some may argue that schrecks on volks are BS or mg's should be standard, but all you really do is aligning a faction, okw in this example, to your ostheer faction ideal.

relic has already removed the resource penalty, they really dont need to get rid of unique flavour even more.

Wait, ain't a lack of handheld AT technically less homogenized than moving them considering how every faction has an option for it?

Do think it would have preferable to keep it in a capacity. A single Schreck squad with an ability to make it an excellent defensive tool would be interesting.

As someone who was always fascinated by OKW unique design I was VEHEMENTLY against the removal of penalties and keeping that special flavour feel (hell, I was even sad to see the beta truck placement crap go away). Even so, I applaud the Schreck removal, because the utter domination of Schreck spam in team games and the frustration / meta lockdowns it causes outweighs all other concerns in my mind, including faction homogenization.

But your point stands. CoH2 armies always start off extremely well designed but then they get balanced into neutrality. There was a way to balance OKW even with resource penalty. There was a way to balance Schreck without removing it altogether (put it on Sturmpios, for whom it was originally designed before AA HT spam in the WFA alpha made them move it to Volks. This was back when Puppschens were completely different and entire US tech structure was different as well.)

I really thought they should have tried making the penalties cumulative while having tech and vehicles and in general reducing vet requirements along with nerfing the bonuses. Keeps a sense of preservation and deliberate choices in their gameplay without making losses as unrecoverable.

But yeah, frag schreck spam.

How about moving schrecks to Obers & giving them the option of being an AT or AI unit?

Schrecks being added to such a cheap unit is ridiculous-The schreck blobberisms are a cheap counter to the heavy tank counters from the other factions.

Seems the start late game is to launch some bombs & throw a schreck blob & in & waste any tank destroyers still standing. Anything still alive can't penetrate a medium tank let alone a Panther or a KT.

I'm getting tired of the Schreck blob, Unkillable panther rush & Stuka Fuss rain. Doesn't seem quite right that in 3 or 4v4s one team member can camp & call out a panther, command panther & a King tiger almost all at once if they were miserly enough with resources.

Where's the "yes, all of them do" option?

+1

Shit poll

Coh2 is fine with this mod. Maybe one less PPsH for penals.

You're poll is pretty biased TBH. I find the mod just fine, the only cannge I would make (as pirate pointed) out is to reduce the ppsh on the penals.

The changes make the game less focused on RNG, counter to Heavy volks AT blobs, and allow for different openings for different factions (Brits and USF).


OKW now just have to play similar to OST and personally if felt kind of nice to used combined arms and operate similar to an allied faction.

any points OP mentioned aside, i believe that removing schrecks from volks is, for instance, a classic example of homogenizing factions. the same applies to the mg34 change.

why cant okw have schrecks, why do they have to function the same as ostheer AT wise, why do they need a stock mg all of a sudden??

some may argue that schrecks on volks are BS or mg's should be standard, but all you really do is aligning a faction, okw in this example, to your ostheer faction ideal.

relic has already removed the resource penalty, they really dont need to get rid of unique flavour even more.

But it is the "competitive mode"

I don't think anyone can deny the merit of actually testing changes. CoH2 is certainly no golden cow.

- I am vegan.
- Eaten gold sounds toxic.
- I enjoy it being no golden cow.
- Something like... a boiled turnip, perhaps...

Like an incinerated one.

Terrible poll options.

CoH2 as a strategy game has a whole lot of room for improvement. Minor balance tweaks and stat changes aren't going to make the game any better or attract any new players. Major design changes are the best way to keep a game fresh and attract new attention.

There's also the hilarious fact that none of the "radical" changes people are all terrified of are actually radical at all.