Should the zook upgrade be limited to rangers/paras only?

With panzershreck being removed from volks, and rightfully so, then it is USF turn. You can pickup 2 and destroy any medium or light vehicle, including dedicated AI ones. Just cripple the vehicle with AT nade after the first shot and then finish it off and watch your opponent rage quit.



It should be limited to expensive elite units and not relatively cheap baseline inf, who also have access to AT nades, wtf.

Don't drive up to zooked rifles and get snared. The difference between USF and UKF using AT upgrades and volks is that they have significant tradeoffs in firepower. Every zook or piat you get is one less important bar or bren you could be having. Same thing with pgrens where they trade half their damage away.

I don't drive into them, they drive into me. And you can combine a bar/1919000 with your zook for some extra oomph feelings, so no trade offs here.

I don't drive into them, they drive into me. And you can combine a bar with your zook for some extra oomph feelings, so no trade offs here.

Zook + Bar? No. Either Balls deep one way or another. No mixture.

I just speaks some wisdom for relic PR guys who are lurking on these forums. I give them balance revelations, if they are mature enough, they take my advice and implement them via the attribute editor. If not, then their loss

I don't drive into them, they drive into me. And you can combine a bar/1919000 with your zook for some extra oomph feelings, so no trade offs here.

One zook isn't going to do anything, it's not worth it.

It is, especially if you have one other unit equipped close, which is usually the case with USF being a blobby faction and all.

Don't drive up to zooked rifles and get snared. The difference between USF and UKF using AT upgrades and volks is that they have significant tradeoffs in firepower. Every zook or piat you get is one less important bar or bren you could be having. Same thing with pgrens where they trade half their damage away.

Please, what about REs or Engineers? There is little to no difference between equipping rifles or volks with zooks/schrecks. In fact it's worse with rifles because they also have access to LMG, nades, AT nade and smoke. Yet only volks blobs are complained about when rifle blobs can be big trouble.

Please, what about REs or Engineers? There is little to no difference between equipping rifles or volks with zooks/schrecks. In fact it's worse with rifles because they also have access to LMG, nades, AT nade and smoke. Yet only volks blobs are complained about when rifle blobs can be big trouble.

Because schrecks are just straight up better. What about RE and Engineers? They still aren't going to be effective ai with 2 bazookas.

With volks getting a schreck is just obvious, you will do it on every squad for no drawback. Upgrading dual zooks or duel piats on every rifle and IS is just stupid and will get you walked over because you have no bars/lmgs.

Because schrecks are just straight up better. What about RE and Engineers? They still aren't going to be effective ai with 2 bazookas.

With volks getting a schreck is just obvious, you will do it on every squad for no drawback. Upgrading dual zooks or duel piats on every rifle and IS is just stupid and will get you walked over because you have no bars/lmgs.

Bazookas are still very effective and very strong AT weapons. REs and Engineers aren't effective AI in the first place so you can upgrade them to AT for almost no drawback.

You just upgrade some squads with LMGs, some Bazookas/Piats and some with both or just upgrade according to whatever you enemy has. You are trying to make it sound like picking Bazooka/PIAT is a death sentence for USF/UKF when that is not the case at all. A rifle squad with a M1919 or BAR and 1 Bazooka will smash a Volks schreck squad AND be potent AT considering they have snare as well. Get a few of them and some REs with Zooks plus Cpt/Lt etc and you have death blob far more powerful than anything OKW can muster. You are trying to justify absolute hypocrisy when it's obvious that Rifle blobs can walk all over OKW much easier than Volks blobs can walk over USF (note: Volks can't).

Let's compare Schrek Volks and Zook Rifles
Volks: 1x Panzerschreck, 4 men poor AI and flame nade
Rifle: 2x Bazooka (2x Bazooka > 1x Panzerschreck), 4 men decent-Good AI and grenade, snare and smoke.

Of course the Volks are much more OP.

Bazookas are still very effective and very strong AT weapons. REs and Engineers aren't effective AI in the first place so you can upgrade them to AT for almost no drawback.

You just upgrade some squads with LMGs, some Bazookas/Piats and some with both or just upgrade according to whatever you enemy has. You are trying to make it sound like picking Bazooka/PIAT is a death sentence for USF/UKF when that is not the case at all. A rifle squad with a M1919 or BAR and 1 Bazooka will smash a Volks schreck squad AND be potent AT considering they have snare as well. Get a few of them and some REs with Zooks plus Cpt/Lt etc and you have death blob far more powerful than anything OKW can muster. You are trying to justify absolute hypocrisy when it's obvious that Rifle blobs can walk all over OKW much easier than Volks blobs can walk over USF (note: Volks can't).

If you get a shcreck on volks there is no drawback, if you get a bazooka on any USF infantry the drawback is fewer good ai weapon upgrades. You have to make a choice here with USF. What you just described, all those ways that USF can work around bazooka limitations, that's great. That's strategy. Volks have none of that, just an obvious upgrade you will get on all your squads. If you are trying to beat a rifle blob with a volks blob you are doing it wrong. Get some elite infantry to push back with. Rifles are more expensive than volks, of course they will beat you.

If you get a shcreck on volks there is no drawback, if you get a bazooka on any USF infantry the drawback is fewer good ai weapon upgrades. You have to make a choice here with USF. What you just described, all those ways that USF can work around bazooka limitations, that's great. That's strategy. Volks have none of that, just an obvious upgrade you will get on all your squads. If you are trying to beat a rifle blob with a volks blob you are doing it wrong. Get some elite infantry to push back with. Rifles are more expensive than volks, of course they will beat you.

The drawback is not the death sentence you are making it sound like, a 2x Bazooka squad will still wreck a Volks squad and there's nothing stopping USF getting extra LMG riflemen or Airborne, Rangers etc which wreck even Obersoldaten. There really isn't that much difference and you are just being hypocritical that Volks can't have Panzerschrecks but Riflemen can have Bazookas. It's funny how Riflemen are cheaper than Obersoldaten yet Vet 3 LMG Riflemen will absolutely wreck them.

Your whole post is "Oh poor Riflemen, look how terrible they are because they are actually downgraded now because they have Bazooka, now USF player is toast because their whole army is locked from picking Bazookas and now they can't fight infantry". If you have Riflemen with LMG and one Bazooka that is huge upgrade in both AT and AI but Volks aren't even allowed to have upgrade in AT. Pure hypocrisy.

Your whole post is "Oh poor Riflemen, look how terrible they are because they are actually downgraded now because they have Bazooka, now USF player is toast because their whole army is locked from picking Bazookas and now they can't fight infantry". If you have Riflemen with LMG and one Bazooka that is huge upgrade in both AT and AI but Volks aren't even allowed to have upgrade in AT. Pure hypocrisy.

This victim complex you have is astounding.

No, getting a bazooka doesn't make rifles useless. But it has drawbacks. Significant drawbacks.

If you get 2 bazookas instead of bars, at close range you will be doing only 39% of the dps of a barred rifle squad. That is a huuuge difference. With one bar and one bazooka it's it's 69%.

If you get 2 bazookas instead of lmgs, at long range you will be doing 29% of the dps and 64% with one lmg one bazooka.

In addition, once you start dropping models with a bazooka squad your dps goes down the toilet because they switch off holding the bazookas.

Volks are at 80% efficiency with schrecks no matter what. There are not enough tradeoffs to justify volks having schrecks, it is a brainless upgrade that you will always get given the income to afford it. Deciding to get bazookas on rifles is a trade off that you must make. There is actual strategy involved in their upgrading.

The drawback is not the death sentence you are making it sound like, a 2x Bazooka squad will still wreck a Volks squad

No, they won't.

This victim complex you have is astounding.

No, getting a bazooka doesn't make rifles useless. But it has drawbacks. Significant drawbacks.

If you get 2 bazookas instead of bars, at close range you will be doing only 39% of the dps of a barred rifle squad. That is a huuuge difference. With one bar and one bazooka it's it's 69%.

If you get 2 bazookas instead of lmgs, at long range you will be doing 29% of the dps and 64% with one lmg one bazooka.

In addition, once you start dropping models with a bazooka squad your dps goes down the toilet because they switch off holding the bazookas.

Volks are at 80% efficiency with schrecks no matter what. There are not enough tradeoffs to justify volks having schrecks, it is a brainless upgrade that you will always get given the income to afford it. Deciding to get bazookas on rifles is a trade off that you must make. There is actual strategy involved in their upgrading.

You're missing the bigger picture here, it's very simple. The fact is USF can spam twice as many handheld AT weapons than OKW for the same population cost with regards to mainline infantry. No 'drawbacks', they can still spam as many bazookas as they want or LMGs as they want, in fact they are less hampered by their choice because 2x Bazooka rifle squad dedicated to AT is more effective at AT than 1xSchrek Volks squad forced only into AT. Volks don't have benefit of choosing between LMG and Schreck. If they choose Bazooka they can still have 1xLMG which can wreck most Axis squads or get more squads with 2xLMG to wreck everything. Meanwhile OKW is stuck with bunch of crap Volks squads only good for moving around one panzerschreck with no smoke and no snare. You also make it seem like Bazooka brings no benefit because a Rifle squad would lose some anti-infantry capability but you totally ignore the AT benefit it brings.

It seems you also have issue with 'brainless' Volks upgrade and praise USF 'strategic' upgrade between Bazooka and LMG. Following your logic, it suggests that the best course of action is to allow Volks to pick between Schreck and LMG so they have some kind of trade off. However your argument is biased and hypocritical because you agree with removing Panzerschreck and it pertains only to Volks. What about all the other units that only have one upgrade and no 'drawback'? Are they all 'brainless' too?

Let's not forget that for 200MP and 5 pop cap, USF can have a more effective AT squad (REs) than Volks for OKW. 2 Bazooka > 1 Panzerschreck.

However your argument is biased

Orly? Pot calling the kettle black much?

Orly? Pot calling the kettle black much?

Pot telling pot calling kettle black. Try reading the post, I am calling for equal change which is not really biased compared to suggesting nerf only one side.

You're missing the bigger picture here, it's very simple. The fact is USF can spam twice as many handheld AT weapons than OKW for the same population cost with regards to mainline infantry. No 'drawbacks', they can still spam as many bazookas as they want or LMGs as they want, in fact they are less hampered by their choice because 2x Bazooka rifle squad dedicated to AT is more effective at AT than 1xSchrek Volks squad forced only into AT. Volks don't have benefit of choosing between LMG and Schreck. If they choose Bazooka they can still have 1xLMG which can wreck most Axis squads or get more squads with 2xLMG to wreck everything. Meanwhile OKW is stuck with bunch of crap Volks squads only good for moving around one panzerschreck with no smoke and no snare. You also make it seem like Bazooka brings no benefit because a Rifle squad would lose some anti-infantry capability but you totally ignore the AT benefit it brings.

It seems you also have issue with 'brainless' Volks upgrade and praise USF 'strategic' upgrade between Bazooka and LMG. Following your logic, it suggests that the best course of action is to allow Volks to pick between Schreck and LMG so they have some kind of trade off. However your argument is biased and hypocritical because you agree with removing Panzerschreck and it pertains only to Volks. What about all the other units that only have one upgrade and no 'drawback'? Are they all 'brainless' too?

Let's not forget that for 200MP and 5 pop cap, USF can have a more effective AT squad (REs) than Volks for OKW. 2 Bazooka > 1 Panzerschreck.

Ok, so you pretty much just ignored everything I said. Fantastic.

The panzerschreck is twice as good as bazookas, it's not a fair comparison to say USF can get out twice the number of AT weapons when theirs are half as effective.

At a squad level, there are clear dps drawbacks to the bazooka. You cannot deny this. Saying you can make other rifle squads and give them mgs is true, but why can't OKW do the same thing? Stop blobbing only volks and expecting to beat an army of better units. Rifles are more expensive and better than volks, get some elite infantry ffs. Get some obers, falls, panzerfusilliers, or jaegers.

Yes, I do think that giving volks a choice between a panzerschreck and another upgrade would be an improvement. The problem is that nobody is going to bother to upgrade with anything besides schrecks unless the other upgrade is equally as powerful, which would be unjustifiable on a squad as cheap as volks.

Now that the USF AT gun is after getting buffed to be finally a bit more usefull in more than RNG countersniping and their MG getting penetrating ammo, it wouldnt actually hurt that much

The panzerschreck is twice as good as bazookas,

Don't undermine your credibility with such inaccurate claims. The zook deals 100 and shrecks deals 120 damage, and some slight pen difference.



Shreck costs 90 muni (rip) while the zook costs 50 muni haha