Why change the spawn system?

If one of the concerns is not being able to use certain abilities while off-map, turn off the requirement flag and then test to see if it breaks anything. Done, can tell unit to repair while they are off-map.

I hope they won't do this, bcs if i am correct this means that okw can call in infantry much further into the battlefield due to their forward base buildings.... Show Spoiler

1. If the main concern if that this delays units from being usable by 15-20 seconds we could do the following:
- First, this one (actually, it would be nice if they could do this):

If one of the concerns is not being able to use certain abilities while off-map, turn off the requirement flag and then test to see if it breaks anything. Done, can tell unit to repair while they are off-map.

- Then, we could, literally, reduce the building time of all units by 15-20 seconds. That change would, literally, amount to the exact same result (except for the opening when you have enough MP to queue 1-2 units)

2. Secondly. I completely dislike how this change will ossify the game dynamics of 2v2 and above, for no good reason (that cannot be fixed by point #1)

3. The dynamic will upset the dynamics of base rushes.

It will trivialize base rushes vs certain factions (the ones without snares at Vet0):
- e.g., Brits. Just camp their AT gun spawn at the HQ. Done, now they are fucked.

It will make base-dipping (e.g., to take out a sniper) extremely punishing.
- e.g., you are chasing the OSTheer sniper in their base with your M20?
- Too bad that the grenadier that -JUST- happened to spawn out out of thin air (the T1) just fausted you.

4. The current system gives equal opportunity to both the attacker and the defender.
- If the attacker wants to overrun a base, they have to cover all approaches (thus, base-rushes are not trivial)
- However, the defender is also not able to call their units out of thin air (thus, giving the attacker the opportunity to cover that flank, or if they failed to, to gtfo).

I don't feel that changing the spawn point opens up a new strategic option, at least not for 1v1. Thing is, the base sectors are really small. You would always put the buildings pretty much towards the center (like now, for reinforcements), because there is not much of a downside to it.

On the other hand it obviously would remove the tactical option to choose your spawnpoint. So, all in all less options for the players, really.

For higher game modes you actually would have more options, true, but I don't think this outweighs the disadvantage.

Yeah, not being able to give commands to the units when they spawn is annoying, but there should be other options to resolve that issue...

- e.g., Brits. Just camp their AT gun spawn at the HQ. Done, now they are fucked.

I was concerned about this as well, but I guess ATGs don't fall under "Small Team Weapons".

It's fascinating to see all the vCoH nostalgia fanboys come out of the woodwork in praise of this change.

If you guys had played the campaign, you'd see why this feature exists. Relic had strategic points in many of the missions that allowed you to add units to your forces much quicker than meandering across the map from your HQ. This was a problem in Dawn of War 2 Retribution's campaign in many missions because while you captured forward bases, res pawning heroes would spawn at the first base on the map. (And hot keys would default to your first HQ so if you built units that way they'd spawn far away). It wasn't just added for realism: it serves a functional
purpose.

So, in multiplayer it also serves a role. It allows you to spawn units with your teammate at the start of the game. This is a strategic improvement. It also means that in a base attack situation your AT guns are not easily camped outside the spawn building, or any other units really.

It's obvious from how the game is designed that most factions aren't meant to care about building placement. (OKW being a key exception). Two of the factions don't even have the option to place structures.

It's a trade off: building placement is irrelevant but rally point placement is. Some call in points can be ambushed on several maps, for example. If map designers wanted to they could even connect rally points to strategic points opening up the option of building units closer to the frontline if you had captured key territory. This would actually be kind of interesting to see, to be honest. It also normalizes all factions: they all get their units from the same spots. With this change we are going to see Ostheer with the greatest advantage, along with Soviets. If it also applies to OKW we could see some issues as well with obers spawning on the map. It disadvantages USF and Brits who already have long build times and expensive units. With the change, grenadiers will be capping a point while tommies or riflemen are just spawning in the HQ.

This is one of those things that does not need to be changed. If you don't like it (because you don't like coh2 in general) then you're free to make a mod and play the game there. Forcing this shit into retail and pushing for the game to change, when you've never liked the game at all, is really obnoxious. Those of us who actually like coh2 for what it is are getting the shaft because of vCoH whiners.

It's fascinating to see all the vCoH nostalgia fanboys come out of the woodwork in praise of this change.

If you guys had played the campaign, you'd see why this feature exists. Relic had strategic points in many of the missions that allowed you to add units to your forces much quicker than meandering across the map from your HQ. This was a problem in Dawn of War 2 Retribution's campaign in many missions because while you captured forward bases, res pawning heroes would spawn at the first base on the map. (And hot keys would default to your first HQ so if you built units that way they'd spawn far away). It wasn't just added for realism: it serves a functional
purpose.

Considering what is possible in the Worldbuilder, there is no reason for that outside of lazy game building. There's more than enough ability to make a campaign map behave differently than the core mechanics just on the version released to customers.

So, in multiplayer it also serves a role. It allows you to spawn units with your teammate at the start of the game. This is a strategic improvement. It also means that in a base attack situation your AT guns are not easily camped outside the spawn building, or any other units really.

It also allows for the yet-as-of-now unused option for calling in units in different captured territory. If there was a map entry point on the far corner of a map away from either base, whichever team holds that territory could spawn units from that entry point. It's just that no existing automatch map features this.

Zombi, re your last thing, that is Relic's choice and fault.

i like current system either. new system got no risk v reward. how many time have you actually pushed far enough to destroy enemy's base bunkers? in real game.

Good change.

1. Risk vs. added Reward of placing buildings further forward
2. Slightly speeds up games, COH2 matches are way too long

After all these changes maybe we should just play vCOH considering Coh 2 is starting to look like it with all these removed "features"

+ 1

Lets make it more like vCoH coz people can't think of new stuff. This new system is advantageous to some factions and that's not right.

Good change.

1. Risk vs. added Reward of placing buildings further forward
2. Slightly speeds up games, COH2 matches are way too long

Wut?

1. What risk???? Tell me how many times your base buildings got lost? Attacking a base is suicide in Coh. So much for that.

2. Where would you like to speed up the game? First tanks come out at 6-8 mins. Early-game is basicly dead.

3. Sure lets give OKW a huge buff by changing this spawn system, I want my Panther to pop out of the Schwerer's Flak Gun so I can no-skill wipe any attacking allied armor trying to kill my T4. Also, UKF and USF would be rekt with these changes.

Its a retarded change.

Wut?

1. What risk???? Tell me how many times your base buildings got lost? Attacking a base is suicide in Coh. So much for that.

2. Where would you like to speed up the game? First tanks come out at 6-8 mins. Early-game is basicly dead.

3. Sure lets give OKW a huge buff by changing this spawn system, I want my Panther to pop out of the Schwerer's Flak Gun so I can no-skill wipe any attacking allied armor trying to kill my T4. Also, UKF and USF would be rekt with these changes.

Its a retarded change.

+1

Sure lets give OKW a huge buff by changing this spawn system, I want my Panther to pop out of the Schwerer's Flak Gun so I can no-skill wipe any attacking allied armor trying to kill my T4. Also, UKF and USF would be rekt with these changes.

Fortunately, that shouldn't happen since they said it's "infantry" and "small weapon teams" only. Not entirely sure what constitutes as small weapon teams myself.

Fortunately, that shouldn't happen since they said it's "infantry" and "small weapon teams" only. Not entirely sure what constitutes as small weapon teams myself.

Let me tell you this way then;. you're attacking the T4 with ATGs (coz they outrange it). Then I just pop out a fresh ober squad and stop your effort.

Easy fix for OKW is that all their units spawn from the HQ. I'm all for this change.

Easy fix for OKW is that all their units spawn from the HQ. I'm all for this change.

Or we don't break thats not broken.

Since the alpha of Coh2 no1 has ever complained that this system is broken/evil/you name it what it is.

#ADAPT

The community did it.

Maybe vcoh fanbois will do it #jesuisoffmapspawn

Let me tell you this way then;. you're attacking the T4 with ATGs (coz they outrange it). Then I just pop out a fresh ober squad and stop your effort.

Obviously you should be covering your ATGs with an HMG, scrub

Seriously though I'm totally fine with the change except for that caveat, which is a pretty bad caveat. They couldn't increase the construction time OKW units affected by it to alleviate it either, because that would just be a nerf to players who'd rather place their trucks safe in their base.

No one's even played the balance mod, but here we have 90 posts of incendiary theory crafting.

Inverse is right, any balance concerns will be short lived, unit build times can easily be adjusted. Of course when most people don't even read the notes fully they somehow think tanks and shit will be spawning from okw hqs.

This will speed up the early game, especially on large fuck off maps, and can potentially make new moves viable (mining krieg barracks entrance anyone?)

The thing is that the change would have been fine in 2013 when Ostheer and Soviets were the only factions available. Having the units spawn from the buildings instead of the outer territories wouldn't have made any difference.

With OKW, USF and UKF this has changed.

UKF and USF have a clumped up base that destroys the pathfinding. With multiple squads spawning inside id, it would be a hell of a mess.

OKW is even worse. To stay consistent, units had to spawn beneath the Flak HQ too which would be amazingly unfair. And if Relic said "Okay, only some units spawn beside the buildings" the consistency would be gone and players would be irritated why some units spawn outside the base (or at the base HQ) and some beneath their respective buildings.

This would be a immensive mess. Please don't do that Relic. The patch is very very well but that little note fucks everything up.