firesparks' balance mod

I'm making a mod combining the various suggestions in an attempt to improve the game's balance and gameplay, as well as fixing various bugs.

link to the mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=716438093


thanks to everyone in this thread providing feedback. [

note that this is a separate effort from miragefla's mod. He and I have different opinion on regarding balace, and so I've decided to make my own version.

new grand list of changes (9/2/16). This list will be continually updated as more changes are added or removed.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PmjzZ77TVnD09iHRi3Yn7wObnAz-UlUloUqIl_iNd94/edit?usp=sharing


old grand list of changes, kept for record
Show Spoiler

*necro*

I think it would be a nice idea to see most of these changes coming up in a future iteration. What I really like about the changes is:
- The normalization of Veterancy bonuses (grenadier-rifles-cons)
- The handling of the double-LMG meta (which is also linked to the insane veterancy modifiers some units get)
- The attention given to popcap (this is something that is being handled -very- sloppily this game)

I also like how you handle the sherman, so as to give it a distinct flavour over other mediums (Sherman is the end-game close-combat tank of the USF).

What I am most worried about (with respect to faction flavour/differentiation) is that:

1. Firefly looks extremely similar to the Jackson

I would say that Firefly is the better Jackson. Given that:
- The Jackson is incredibly fragile (since Jackson is so fragile, it can't really utilize its turret traverse that much)
- UKF has some of the best stock recon options (and USF has some of the worst)
- UKF has the option of buying more resilient brawler units stock

I would say that the Firefly gives both better utility than the Jackson, and also offers superior marginal utility to the faction it belongs.

2) PIAT looks extremely similar to the Bazooka

(if PIAT is to retain its arching projectile when using attack ground, then the PIAT becomes a strictly superior weapon).

PIATs are, currently, beyond insane, both in terms of raw performance, and in terms of the skill gap. That will have to change someday.

I agree with the lowering of the skill gap. However, it would be nice if the Bazooka and the PIAT could trade some stats somewhere (e.g., trade-off between accuracy and penetration, or damage, or something). That's mostly faction diversity for diversity's sake.

3. Bofors durability

I completely agree with the Bofors changes. However, do you also intend it to retain brace?
One of the most annoying features of emplacements is the fact that brace can be mixed in with repairs (especially engineer-free repairs).

Mixing a large health pool with brace, means that the UKF player will have all the tools they require to keep Bofors' HP topped up.

4. Sniper

Another idea to reduce Sniper strength is to severely reduce their sight-range. e.g.,:
- Give snipers 35 sight range (no bonus with vet)
- Require that snipers remain stationary for 3-ish seconds before they get access to extended sight range.

That way if you want to harass with snipers, you need to be either very careful with them, or you need to put some infantry between you and your target (which means you can also start bleeding manpower).

*necro*

I think it would be a nice idea to see most of these changes coming up in a future iteration. What I really like about the changes is:
- The normalization of Veterancy bonuses (grenadier-rifles-cons)
- The handling of the double-LMG meta (which is also linked to the insane veterancy modifiers some units get)
- The attention given to popcap (this is something that is being handled -very- sloppily this game)

I also like how you handle the sherman, so as to give it a distinct flavour over other mediums (Sherman is the end-game close-combat tank of the USF).

What I am most worried about (with respect to faction flavour/differentiation) is that:

1. Firefly looks extremely similar to the Jackson

I would say that Firefly is the better Jackson. Given that:
- The Jackson is incredibly fragile (since Jackson is so fragile, it can't really utilize its turret traverse that much)
- UKF has some of the best stock recon options (and USF has some of the worst)
- UKF has the option of buying more resilient brawler units stock

I would say that the Firefly gives both better utility than the Jackson, and also offers superior marginal utility to the faction it belongs.

2) PIAT looks extremely similar to the Bazooka

(if PIAT is to retain its arching projectile when using attack ground, then the PIAT becomes a strictly superior weapon).

PIATs are, currently, beyond insane, both in terms of raw performance, and in terms of the skill gap. That will have to change someday.

I agree with the lowering of the skill gap. However, it would be nice if the Bazooka and the PIAT could trade some stats somewhere (e.g., trade-off between accuracy and penetration, or damage, or something). That's mostly faction diversity for diversity's sake.

3. Bofors durability

I completely agree with the Bofors changes. However, do you also intend it to retain brace?
One of the most annoying features of emplacements is the fact that brace can be mixed in with repairs (especially engineer-free repairs).

Mixing a large health pool with brace, means that the UKF player will have all the tools they require to keep Bofors' HP topped up.

4. Sniper

Another idea to reduce Sniper strength is to severely reduce their sight-range. e.g.,:
- Give snipers 35 sight range (no bonus with vet)
- Require that snipers remain stationary for 3-ish seconds before they get access to extended sight range.

That way if you want to harass with snipers, you need to be either very careful with them, or you need to put some infantry between you and your target (which means you can also start bleeding manpower).

I'm probably going to redo the mod, since the recent patch change a bit of stuff and gave me a few ideas.

Thanks for the advise, however. I've got a few ideas for the bofor and jackson vs firefly that I'm going to try.

the problem I've got with PIAT is how to give it tracking projectile and still make it distinct from the zooka.

trash game with this mod

Actually one idea that might be worth trying for Bofors (and OKW T4 truck) is to make them bad at harming retreating squads.

One way to do this could be:
- Make their attack more accuracy-based
- Give them terrible (accuracy) penalties vs retreating squads
- Change the pattern of their scatter so that it has negative scatter offset.

That way, even if the retreating squad hugs a wall, the AoE of the Bofors will have very little chance of harming them.

the bofor's weapon is already accuracy based, but good idea on the offset.

the problem I've got with PIAT is how to give it tracking projectile and still make it distinct from the zooka.

Option 1

You could give the PIAT something like:
- Lower penetration
- Higher damage
- Lower deflection damage (both in percentage and absolute terms)

(you can also play with reload times too)

That way the PIAT becomes:
- Better vs light vehicles
- Terrible at frontal assaults vs heavies/etc (unlike the atrocity that we have now)
- Will still reward ambushes, clever play if you can hit from behind.

If you can make PIAT retain its wall-jumping projectile you can even further reduce its frontal damage potential vs heavily-armoured targets. This would incentivize people to use PIATs in an ambush and such.

Option 2

Invert everything I mentioned in option 2.

Asymmetry isn't bad. If you wanted UKF to have infantry AT effective against light vehicles, swap the T.H.IS Boys AT rifles with PIATs in the weapon racks and give T.H.IS PIATs instead. You could then properly specialise PIATs toward a heavy anti-armour role.

I think removing everything that makes the PIAT an interesting weapon speaks more to a lack of imagination (which doesn't seem to be a problem, looking at the Conscript changes ) than any balancing necessity. Also, how have you adjusted the Sapper and Commando Bren guns?

As to how I'd balance Brens/PIATs:

- Remove PIAT scatter
- Increase PIAT projectile speed from 80 to 100
- Increase (weapon rack) PIAT cost from 40 to 100
- Increase (weapon rack) Bren cost from 60 to 100
- Weapon Racks now give two PIATs when PIATs are bought (i.e., AI or AT squad, not both)
- Weapon Racks now give two Brens when Brens are bought
- Bren DPS reduced (accuracy multiplied by 5/6) to reduce total possible UKF AI power
- Sappers now use IS Brens
- Your IS veterancy change implemented

updated a pending change list:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PmjzZ77TVnD09iHRi3Yn7wObnAz-UlUloUqIl_iNd94/edit

-snipped-

-snipped-

On bren guns:
I would rather not touched the tommies' bren gun. I used single bren extensively and they are fine. Sappers bren and commandoes bren are a different matter but I'm not concerned about them right now.

I also want to leave the possibility of mixing bren and PIAT upgrade.

on PIAT:
I'm going to try a non-option PIAT before going for the safe option. The PIAT is going to be always "accurate" against stationary target but can still be dodged through human input.

updated a pending change list:

Those seem like really good changes, overall.

I have some more feedback:

1) Valentine vet1

- You can't, realistically, have enough Sextons to make use of the ability currently anyway
- With that change, this allows the player to shave some popcap off their infantry (which can be used to summon Sextons)

2) PIAT/Zook changes

Given that OKW Volksblob is gone, it is only fair that a similar treatment is applied to the PIAT/Zook blob.

I find it fair for deflection damage to completely go away, since it is currently "trivial" to amass a large number of Zooks/PIATs and destroy Heavy tanks frontally, all due to deflection.

However, do consider that Zooks/PIATs are, realistically, the only reliable option to counter Elefants/JTs (which have an enormous healthpool/armour).

One idea to trial would be:
- Keep deflection damage to 0
- But, dramatically increase extreme-close range penetration (say from ranges 0 to 10)

(realistically, a short-effective-range zook/piat blob will fail hard vs Tiger-like units, due to the sheer strength of their cannons)

Some possible oversights to consider:
- guard PTRSes still deal significant deflection damage (currently it's a non-issue. However, with the zook changes ptrs-es might become better than zooks)
- due to the trajectory of the PIAT it might still be possible to score rear armour hits while attacking from the front (although this will be extremely difficult).

3) 17-pounder penetrating shot

There's a catch 22 with the ability and the unit
- penetrating shot is not useful unless there are buildings to penetrate between you and the target
- you can't get penetrating shot until you hit vet1
- you can't hit vet1 if there are buildings between you and the target

Thus, for practical intents and purposes, you never have access to penetrating shot:
- Option 1: Move penetrating shot to Vet0
- Option 2: Swap flare and penetrating shot as vet1 and garrison bonus respectively
- Option 3: Remove penetrating shot

Also I think Churchill mk7 also needs some changes, currently it got meh gun and crap speed and its smoke ability does not work at all so at your proposed change Comet still better. Furthermore Forward Warning from Anvil does not work either. Commandoes' Sten in the new patch still not work properly so nerfing Light Gammon Bomb can make them useless, especially now that PzGren and Falls/Obers also got nuke nade.

-snipped

valentine: the vet 1 sounds nice in theory but I agree with your statement. That's why I give the valentine the same ability as the tommies and sniper artillery flare.

I want to see how does the new PIAT and bazooka fare after my changes before further changing them.

Also I think Churchill mk7 also needs some changes, currently it got meh gun and crap speed and its smoke ability does not work at all so at your proposed change Comet still better. Furthermore Forward Warning from Anvil does not work either. Commandoes' Sten in the new patch still not work properly so nerfing Light Gammon Bomb can make them useless, especially now that PzGren and Falls/Obers also got nuke nade.

the gammon bomb nerf was there before the last patch buffed the bundled nade. I kept it in since it's justification for the cost decrease on the commandos. The 35 mu gammon bomb is also cheaper than the 45mu bundled nade.

and I added back in the smoke buff for the churchill. It got lost in the reshuffle.

First off, excellent changes! You've made underused abilities like Medical Kits and Coordinated Barrage useful, and made underappreciated units like Conscripts and Valentines more viable! Do you have a release date in mind?

Feedback:

USF
Sherman HP: I suggest a decrease from 800HP to 720HP. 720HP already allows it to survive another shot (provided it did not get snared) which is enough to make it more survivable. It's bigger brouthers, the Bulldozer and the Easy Eight also both have 720HP (yes, they have more armor, but are specialized and cost more as well).

UKF

Bofors cost adjustment seems over-the-top; 120FU is too much fuel, and would result in too much rarity. It's more expensive (in terms of fuel) than the 17-prd (the last time I saw one was in a 3v3 Sim City), which would almost make it not viable in any situation. I suggest an increase to 60FU, just like an AEC. A 33% increase is already a massive amount; going for more than 1 would slow down your tech and tanks down significantly, while not making it prohibitively expensive.

All emplacements:
Is it possible to modify the Brace ability? Personally, I'd like to see a 30MU cost, a 30 second cooldown, and damage reduction to -75% (from -95%), but I can't seem to edit it from Attribute Editor. Could it be upgrade\british\abilities\base_building_braced_mp?

First off, excellent changes! You've made underused abilities like Medical Kits and Coordinated Barrage useful, and made underappreciated units like Conscripts and Valentines more viable! Do you have a release date in mind?

Feedback:

USF
Sherman HP: I suggest a decrease from 800HP to 720HP. 720HP already allows it to survive another shot (provided it did not get snared) which is enough to make it more survivable. It's bigger brouthers, the Bulldozer and the Easy Eight also both have 720HP (yes, they have more armor, but are specialized and cost more as well).

UKF

Bofors cost adjustment seems over-the-top; 120FU is too much fuel, and would result in too much rarity. It's more expensive (in terms of fuel) than the 17-prd (the last time I saw one was in a 3v3 Sim City), which would almost make it not viable in any situation. I suggest an increase to 60FU, just like an AEC. A 33% increase is already a massive amount; going for more than 1 would slow down your tech and tanks down significantly, while not making it prohibitively expensive.

All emplacements:
Is it possible to modify the Brace ability? Personally, I'd like to see a 30MU cost, a 30 second cooldown, and damage reduction to -75% (from -95%), but I can't seem to edit it from Attribute Editor. Could it be upgrade\british\abilities\base_building_braced_mp?

the soonest is this weekend. modtool just got updated and I need to rebuild the entire thing

Sherman: the bulldozer will definitely be looked at in the future. I also wanted to use 800 hp since it's the same hp as the comet, t34/85, and panther. the difference between 800 and 720 is basically one schreck round.

I am looking at the emplacement and trying to figure out how the brace work.

Released the first verison of the mod, mostly to rebuild it after the numerous update to the mod tool.

I would recommend reading the change list in google doc as I had to change some plans during production:

link to the mod:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=716438093


thanks for everyone in this thread providing feedback.

On the mod description: did you forget to mention the penetration decrease for the M4A3 75mm Sherman's AP shells? Or did you not include it?

if you want to be taken seriously you need to rename it either to competitive or elite

On the mod description: did you forget to mention the penetration decrease for the M4A3 75mm Sherman's AP shells? Or did you not include it?

I've just forgot to mention it. I've updated the note.

Feedback:

-Valentine Mk. XI tanks arrive too soon, now that they are much stronger. Perhaps a CP requirement increase?

-M4 Shermans firing HE are exceptionally strong against German infantry. It's as strong a shock unit--it will demolish anyone still sitting in T2. Perhaps a Veterancy requirement or an upgrade to increase durability?

Edit: abilities\british\toggle_ability\brit_emplacement_braced_mp seems to be Brace ability.