Snipers Firerate (and other things) Comparison.

I tested the firerate right now:
Max Distance:
German Sniper: 6-9 Seconds per Shot ;67 for 9 Shots --> 7,5 per Shot.
Soviet Sniper: 9-11 Seconds per Shot ;86 for 9 Shots --> 9,5 per Shot.
No Distance:
German Sniper: 4-5 Seconds per Shot ;41 for 9 Shots --> 4,5 per Shot.
Soviet Sniper: 5-7 Seconds per Shot ;54 for 9 Shots --> 6 per Shot.

That leads to:
German Sniper vs Soviet 6 man, max distance: 39 seconds (1,5s (firstshot) + 5*7,5s)
Soviet Sniper vs German 4 man, max distance: 30 seconds (1,5s (firstshot) + 3*9,5s)

German Sniper vs Soviet 6 man Mg-team: 39 seconds (same as 6 man above).
Soviet Sniper vs German 3 man Mg-team: 20,5 seconds (1,5s (firstshot) + 2*9,5s).

German Sniper vs Soviet 5 man Mortar/Pak (1 man flees): 31,5 seconds (1,5s + 4*7,5s).
Soviet Sniper vs German 2 man Mortar/Pak (1 man flees): 11 seconds (1,5s + 9,5s).

German Sniper vs Soviet Engineers 4 man: 24 seconds (1,5s (firstshot) +7,5*3).
Soviet Sniper vs German Engineers 4 man: 30 seconds (1,5s (firstshot) +9,5*3).

Further more often you can't use your full fire rate because you have to move or the enemy moves out of sight. (Atleast this doesn't effect the ridiculos performace of the Germansniper against Weopeonteams.)
Also you have to consider the point at which you have to retreat a unit. So basically if your German Mortar gets one hit from a Sniper you have to retreat instantly. Soviet Mortar can take 4 hits before you have to retreat.


Other Reasons why the German Sniper is bad/worse:
-Anything except Smallarmsfire (flames, nades, arty, tanks, Countersniper) are way better against the German Sniper + Soviets have more of these (Zis, Su76), because two men most of the time wont stand at the same location, therefore a shell can only kill 1.
(On the other Hand I recognize that stafingrun is to powerful against Snipers.)
-Orah! for Soviet Infantry, and furthermore Sprint for Sovietsnipers.
-Amount of Soviet Scoutcars on the field = less targets + German Sniper can be hunted easyer. +Scoutcar Sniper Combo.
-CounterSniping...
-Vet gain. If they would kill enemy Infantry with the same rate (aka Soviet Sniper same time for 4 man and German Sniper same time for 6 man.) they would get the same amount of xp, because 4 Germans give same xp as 6 Soviets. But German Snipers are slower at gaining vet through damage. On the other Hand, (not that big of a deal now with more vet for damage instead of vet for taking damage) Soviet Sniperteam has a total of 80 hp, therefore they can get more vet through taking damage, + they survive longer --> More vet.




Solutions:

-Let Snipers dodge Mortarhits (indirect fire in general), they could jump out of the way. If your Sniper dodges a normally fatal hit, it would be ok to leave him with almost no health. (Or he could be forced to retreat.) Or increase health to 80. This could be a vett 1 or even 2 abbility.
-Increased Rate of Fire for the German Sniper vs Weoponteams. Edit: Or Increase the Rate of Fire in General that the German needs the same time against 6 man as the Soviet against 4. (Only Problem: Engineers). Or increase the RoF after taking muliple shots from the same position (should only help against weopenteams / Buildings (do you know how long it takes to shoot 6 people out of there? (0,4 hitchance)) and is maybe more intuitiv.) Other fix would be the much wanted Crewsize nerf, but I think large crews are very important for the Faction Design and Feeling.
-Soviet Snipers need to pick the actual Sniperrifle up after one man gets shot by a German Sniper. On the other Hand he could gain the same Camovalues after the Squad lost one man, or even better for the Soviets, the SovietSniper would (out of fear) jump into the next avaible cover and cloak. During that he wouldn't be able to shoot. If he is totally in the open he would just jump to the Ground, that would be appropiate punishment for being totally in the open. So it would be a totally fine Sniperbattle. (Ok German still has to win it 2 times but its something.)

P.S. during testing I noticed how bad the Soviet Snipers Camouflage is... But that just makes the Sovietsniper a bit worse. (Look at proposed Sniper Battle.)

You cant adjust statistics based on targets(like enemy crews, for example), not anymore. In vCoH, you used to be able to adjust these via target tables, but these were removed to simplify the mechanics.

Also, because of the way mortar hits work (AOE and Scatter), it is very hard for a mechanic like that to work, and depending on how its coded, exploitable.

If a mortar lands on your troops perfectly, then it will deal maximum damage in the center and then begin to "decay" after a certain distance. Even if the sniper "dodged" the mortar hit, or the mortar missed and landed beside him, he can still get hurt by the mortar round/tank shell, etc., depending on the distance.

balance is ok i think, however the sniper price is to much. Should be about 280-290.

^The price is a integral part of balance, and it would be OK for me if the German Sniper was cheaper, this would highlight that they are NOT exactly the same.

@CombatMuffin. Yes, sadly... the more practical fix would be to adjust the unitsizes, or atleast make it so that the last man doesn't flee automatically. There is a diffrence between: 2/5 man and 3/6 man.
Actually I would be happy enough if the German Sniper gets some buffs, not all of the above mentioned should be implemented.

I know jumping out of the way would probably be too much work to code, but it would be so cool if it were in the game

Good post, fairly well thought out.

Thanks But I guess I have to adjust it now because of the 4 man Weopenteams. I like the new patchnotes and they are also bring the strenght of the Snipers closer together: More Scoutcars for Germans, maybe less for Soviets, and the bigger weopencrews.

I'll definitly try German Snipers again now.

I still get some use out of the German sniper. I don't get him early and I don't get him to counter a Sniper team, but if the enemy goes Maxim heavy at the start, I normally get one, because the counter to this requires the Russian player to back tech. If the Russian is going infantry heavy he is pretty good too. I feel his higher rate of fire plus Russian players tendency to not retreat as quickly due to having larger squads make him a better manpower drain on the opponent.

Pretty sure his incendiary shot at vet 1 never misses retreating units, so if a single enemy unit is crossing his path retreating to base he can for the cost of munitions eliminate the last enemy solider. At least in my experience he always hit them.

Best way to balance the German sniper imo is give him ridiculous range and a very large line of sight, but that line of sight has to have direction placed on it like an MG team. That would be awesome!

What about a instant smoke ability for the german sniper ?
After he takes his shot he can pop a smoke field in front of him as commando's do in vcoh (instantly).
So it will be an instant directional recloak, good for his direct fire preservation. As a counter part, the german sniper won't be able to see shit in this direction neither.

Best way to balance the German sniper imo is give him ridiculous range and a very large line of sight, but that line of sight has to have direction placed on it like an MG team. That would be awesome!

I think the "line of sight setup" is actually a very good idea, but instead of giving the sniper a very long range (I think it would make it very hard to kill) I would give it a defensive/cover bonus once setup.

I like the smoke suggestion, but in general to me it would be natural also to see the sprint ability on the German sniper and not on the Russian one.

Also, why do Russian snipers have flare and German one has nothing in comparison?

I like the smoke suggestion, but in general to me it would be natural also to see the sprint ability on the German sniper and not on the Russian one.

Also, why do Russian snipers have flare and German one has nothing in comparison?

Because campaign

JK. I think the Soviet Sniper Team should be excellent at supporting their large Armies, while the German sniper should be a powerful, precision unit.

Look at Enemy at the Gates lol, Vasili would have never killed König if his buddy hadn't bitten the bullet to reveal him