OKW infantry vet vs UKF is broken

I think you are confusing Obers with snipers.

Remember when they kinda did the same thing anyway?

Alright i think its time for some hard facts, vet 3 tommies are very easy to get, vet 5 okw units are super rare due to the long time it takes to vet them up and being wiped or pushed out by blobs/vehicles. You have so much time to bully them before they get to their max vet.

Now i have done tests on vet 3 tommies vs vet 5 okw units claimed to be over performing by op. And these are fantasy situations, in reality the jaegers would be vet 3 at max, pfuss same and obers maybe vet 2. (if even that)



Tommies won/traded well every single test against expensive "elite" units, expect the ober ones due to the bs suppression they get. Tommies had problems in no cover against most of the units.


Note that i forgot to pick up the second bren when testing close range without cover against jaegers.

Now on to the replay, see those 3 jaeger bulletins? Those won't be there when there when relic fixes dublicates.

3 sappers and 1 regular tommy was a bad idea to begin with(4 at some point lol), feeding kills and vet to okw and the tank hunters are a questionable unit aswell, you are better off with a aec.

You went too heavy on the inf and bled thus making you unable to pump out a early cromwell. The jaegers also picked up a bren that you dropped. Overall you played decently early game and at mid/late you fell off and started losing squads and vehicles for nothing. Your build was pretty bad too.

Something screwy going on there... In game once you lose the 4th Tommy you drop or lose a Bren too, same with the third leaving just your scoped Enfields. One of the Brens was last man standing and last 2 always had a Bren in your tests.

Either the drop bug has been fixed or the mod is slightly different.. I'm sure I've seen dropped Brens in game though since the patch.

Wait a second. So until yesterday, Falschrimjaegers did not get -39% rec. acc. and +30% acc. but now they do, right?

No wonder why we were thiniking they are dying like flies. Time to play some games with them.

Show Spoiler

I couldnt watch whole video cause my shit net right now, but keep in mind that such tests are not 100% accurate. I mean, how many times full health Tommies behind cover will fight other units behind cover? More often Tommies will be caught out of cover, on move, without any cover around and we know how worthless they are without cover.

I haven't played the game yet, but I think that JLI and panzer fussiliers has to be looked into.

OMG, what did you just say? You haven't played the game yet, buit they need looking into?

*****************FACE PALM******************

Something screwy going on there... In game once you lose the 4th Tommy you drop or lose a Bren too, same with the third leaving just your scoped Enfields. One of the Brens was last man standing and last 2 always had a Bren in your tests.

Either the drop bug has been fixed or the mod is slightly different.. I'm sure I've seen dropped Brens in game though since the patch.

For some reason tommies seem to prefer scoped lee's over brens. Also i don't think jaegers used to camo in and out like that?

Something screwy going on there... In game once you lose the 4th Tommy you drop or lose a Bren too, same with the third leaving just your scoped Enfields. One of the Brens was last man standing and last 2 always had a Bren in your tests.

Either the drop bug has been fixed or the mod is slightly different.. I'm sure I've seen dropped Brens in game though since the patch.

Yes, it is a know issue that they still not fixed. You are better off building Sappers with Brens until they fixed it (especially if you go anvil specialization).

I couldnt watch whole video cause my shit net right now, but keep in mind that such tests are not 100% accurate. I mean, how many times full health Tommies behind cover will fight other units behind cover? More often Tommies will be caught out of cover, on move, without any cover around and we know how worthless they are without cover.

That is very true, the point i wanted to make in this was that the okw vet isn't walking all over brits like the op made it sound.

For some reason tommies seem to prefer scoped lee's over brens. Also i don't think jaegers used to camo in and out like that?

Definitely not.

Well, another to add to the list.

That is very true, the point i wanted to make in this was that the okw vet isn't walking all over brits like the op made it sound.

You are saying it by yourself. I would guess that your test conditions are not very common. In most combat situations tommies will perform worse by far.

I'm even more afraid about Commandos getting worse by not scaling up with vet like other troops do.

You are saying it by yourself. I would guess that your test conditions are not very common. In most combat situations tommies will perform worse by far.

I'm even more afraid about Commandos getting worse by not scaling up with vet like other troops do.

Remember that they were vet 5, normally they would be vet 2/3 Also i tested them in more realistic sitations, yellow cover at medium ranges and they performed quite well.

Commandoes are bugged atm, ambush bonus only applies to one smg, or was it even only the first burst.

That is very true, the point i wanted to make in this was that the okw vet isn't walking all over brits like the op made it sound.

assuming you have two bren guns and don't mind the occasional drop.

of course, this also mean condoning double bren gun and double lmg in general.

Remember that they were vet 5, normally they would be vet 2/3 Also i tested them in more realistic sitations, yellow cover at medium ranges and they performed quite well.

Commandoes are bugged atm, ambush bonus only applies to one smg, or was it even only the first burst.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate that you are investing time to test units and share your results with us. Really, I have to say that ;-)

Personally I like the design of british infantry the most, because they are not running around like allround armed rambos out in the open. They actually have to seek for cover.
The problem is that infantry battles get bigger, so multiple units will fight at once. It gets way harder to bring all units in a decent position for a good firing position to focus fire on a single enemy unit + you are very prone to rifle grenades and mortar rounds.

Commandos got balanced while compared to units without offensive attack bonus (because it was bugged). Now they have to face units that are firing faster with a higher accuracy and hence will take more damage while getting no additional received accuracy themselves with vet.

Show Spoiler

.

Thanks
Indeed its nice to have differently working inf in coh2 that need to be used smartly

Brit inf is a bit tricky to use, i usually try to rush and keep them around important points so i can pick the cover/house and defend it. Using hmg's to suppress and then get close is good too.

Rifle grenades are really hard on brits due to the 4 man squads, but if you are in green cover the damage is really low. A lot of players make the mistake of trying to dodge too late resulting in wipes because the green cover damage reduction is lost, its better to just take it in green cover.

I do agree on that, commandoes were kinda eh even before this vet fix, id imagine they do need a buff in order to stay useful this patch.

Also, as well as the Brens strangely not dropping, which would reduce the available firepower significantly in favour of the Axis, most of those tests showed the Brits at least 60 MU out of pocket.

Course due to the out of cover malus if any of those axis units got hold of a Bren then watch out Brits.

Out of interest why didn't the Brens drop as we see in game?

So something to note about that testing video is how the JLI continually blink in and out of cloaking.

Another thing to note is how incredibly long those units spend shooting at each other. I rarely find squads 1v1ing for long periods of time in any game mode.

I think the issue is more about when things reach critical mass: which for instance is when there's 4+ panzershrecks or more than one vetted Obers focus firing squads as they move in and out of cover, and especially when retreating.

For OKW reaching critical mass, and staying there, is very easy. Volks can get all shrecks, and JLI, PF, and especially Obers are all the most effective maxrange/A-moving units in the game. Maneuvering into position against any of these units, offensively or defensively, is far more challenging than any other faction.

I mean, OKW doesn't have snares or a stock MG that discourage rushing units into close ranges, but they're also by far the most effective at wiping units, vehicles and infantry alike, before they can even close to an effective range.

Simply put, you can't outrange OKW.

Also, as well as the Brens strangely not dropping, which would reduce the available firepower significantly in favour of the Axis, most of those tests showed the Brits at least 60 MU out of pocket.

Course due to the out of cover malus if any of those axis units got hold of a Bren then watch out Brits.

Out of interest why didn't the Brens drop as we see in game?

the special weapon doesn't always drop. it's a percentage chance.

No it doesn't always drop, but IS always lose their Brens on the death of models 4 and 3. That didn't happen in the tests above.

I'm wondering why as it makes a big difference in tests like that.

P2Brits on L I F E S U P P O R T

No it doesn't always drop, but IS always lose their Brens on the death of models 4 and 3. That didn't happen in the tests above.

I'm wondering why as it makes a big difference in tests like that.

they only "lose" or drop the bren if the bren gunner is the one who die.