Okay, a little bit of a whine, I know, and its been repeated quite a bit but..
Can anyone explain to me why the powers that designed this game decided to make the maxim a viable capping unit? It's essentially a conscript squad which can't Ooorah that can suppress and do damage against light vehicles and kill infantry better - with the same cost.
I honestly would not be surprised if I see someone doing a 1 Engie 4 Maxim start. I expect that would be perfectly viable, esp on the really bad map choices we have.
Maxim crew wtf.
4 Jul 2013, 11:08 AM
#1
Posts: 928
Had fun doing this earlier
4 Jul 2013, 11:12 AM
#2
Posts: 176
Probably the same person who chose to make them dish out more damage than MG42s and ensure they spread extremley well as to not be vunerable to grenades. I'm personally shocked you can't put a Maxim in a Clown car and let it shoot..
4 Jul 2013, 12:44 PM
#3
Posts: 77
I agree that the pure damage of the Maxim makes it a viable combat unit, rather than a support unit, up until a Flammenwerfer is unleashed.
Counters do exist however, one of my favourites being to deny engagements and focus on capping until you can get out a flammenwerfer. Without guards from earning CPs, a four maxim strat is far weaker.
If the maxims are supplementing a conscript force (say 2-3 'scripts and 1-2 maxims), then they are obviously playing a largely infantry army, that could be countered effectively by a defensive position and commander choice, or the same as above, but with even more scope for vehicles due to the fuel that would inevitably be dumped into conscript upgrades (moltovs and AT nades). Especially use of buildings with your own MGs, to force molotovs, and to counter attack from. Whilst maxims do a tremendous amount of dps, they lack the sheer suppression of the MG 42, especially with their narrow firing arc.
Counters do exist however, one of my favourites being to deny engagements and focus on capping until you can get out a flammenwerfer. Without guards from earning CPs, a four maxim strat is far weaker.
If the maxims are supplementing a conscript force (say 2-3 'scripts and 1-2 maxims), then they are obviously playing a largely infantry army, that could be countered effectively by a defensive position and commander choice, or the same as above, but with even more scope for vehicles due to the fuel that would inevitably be dumped into conscript upgrades (moltovs and AT nades). Especially use of buildings with your own MGs, to force molotovs, and to counter attack from. Whilst maxims do a tremendous amount of dps, they lack the sheer suppression of the MG 42, especially with their narrow firing arc.
4 Jul 2013, 12:49 PM
#4
Posts: 176
I've actually found Maxim's / Stolen MG42s pin extremley fast compared to Osteer HMG's, which is ridicolous if Maxims are supposed to have the "Killing Power". One insane feature when you think about it is the fact HMGs STILL fire whilst pinned, this means Maxims simply don't lose against MG42s.
4 Jul 2013, 12:56 PM
#5
Posts: 604
I'm personally shocked you can't put a Maxim in a Clown car and let it shoot..
Don't give them ideas x(
5 Jul 2013, 00:39 AM
#6
Posts: 928
I agree that the pure damage of the Maxim makes it a viable combat unit, rather than a support unit, up until a Flammenwerfer is unleashed.
Counters do exist however, one of my favourites being to deny engagements and focus on capping until you can get out a flammenwerfer. Without guards from earning CPs, a four maxim strat is far weaker.
If the maxims are supplementing a conscript force (say 2-3 'scripts and 1-2 maxims), then they are obviously playing a largely infantry army, that could be countered effectively by a defensive position and commander choice, or the same as above, but with even more scope for vehicles due to the fuel that would inevitably be dumped into conscript upgrades (moltovs and AT nades). Especially use of buildings with your own MGs, to force molotovs, and to counter attack from. Whilst maxims do a tremendous amount of dps, they lack the sheer suppression of the MG 42, especially with their narrow firing arc.
I completely agree. In a 1v1, if practiced, it may be viable, but in a 2v2, it's definitely viable if both players spam Maxims.
It's even worse on small maps like Kholdony where you don't have room to maneuver (which btw, can also be a 2v2 map from time to time).
This leads to really boring games, especially when they start getting their AT out, in which case Ost has to tech to T4 for any arty.
In fact - that's what Ost lacks - indirect fire in general. Before you get to T4, the only form of indirect fire is a mortar.
Had fun doing this earlier
5 Jul 2013, 01:18 AM
#7
Posts: 954
I completely agree. In a 1v1, if practiced, it may be viable, but in a 2v2, it's definitely viable if both players spam Maxims.
It's even worse on small maps like Kholdony where you don't have room to maneuver (which btw, can also be a 2v2 map from time to time).
This leads to really boring games, especially when they start getting their AT out, in which case Ost has to tech to T4 for any arty.
In fact - that's what Ost lacks - indirect fire in general. Before you get to T4, the only form of indirect fire is a mortar.
Mortar half track, problem solved when you got 2 CP, not to mention the 25sec cold-down 105mm howitzer
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
5 Jul 2013, 22:13 PM
#8
Posts: 419
mortar half tral hahahahah
that thing is less accurate and does less damage than a regular mortar
and a regular ostheer mortar is really limp. When it hits does not o much damage, barely hits anywhere close and this vs six man support teams. That have longer range.
Late game howitzer to deal with start of the game units?....how do you gel that one
that thing is less accurate and does less damage than a regular mortar
and a regular ostheer mortar is really limp. When it hits does not o much damage, barely hits anywhere close and this vs six man support teams. That have longer range.
Late game howitzer to deal with start of the game units?....how do you gel that one
5 Jul 2013, 22:19 PM
#9
Posts: 419
Let's also not forget the maxim can shoot at the range of a sniper which is insane. a six man combat unit that can prevent flanking, unpinnable , awesome killing power,suppresses well, has the range of a sniper. Can sprint with vet. Really ...this is fair?
Did the inventor of the maxim also join the dev team or something. In 2013 armies still make weapons based off the mg42 which is (underwhelming in coh2), while the maxim had faded away in history. Until now that is.
Did the inventor of the maxim also join the dev team or something. In 2013 armies still make weapons based off the mg42 which is (underwhelming in coh2), while the maxim had faded away in history. Until now that is.
5 Jul 2013, 22:22 PM
#10
Posts: 255
actually the sniper has a slightly longer range than the maxim and hmg42
6 Jul 2013, 07:17 AM
#11
Posts: 475
I tend to still fight better using 1-2 scout cars than maxims. I think it's partially that mine aren't upgraded or anything...flamer HT comes along and I'm dead.... which has happened and I forgot to make Guards, I picked wrong commander. Oh well... I was winning until that moment.
6 Jul 2013, 13:53 PM
#12
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
If you watch IpKaiFuck tourney numer 2, my game vs Spanky where he was soviets, you gonna see how he stomped me with MG spam and later with T34 spam. Maxims are retarded
6 Jul 2013, 18:17 PM
#13
Posts: 2779
There is no drawbacks spamming those Maxim, while flamer HT comes, you just pull the hell back, call in T70 then the HT is toasted.
You still have the map control and spam T70 to the end and free win
You still have the map control and spam T70 to the end and free win
6 Jul 2013, 23:03 PM
#14
Posts: 928
There is no drawbacks spamming those Maxim, while flamer HT comes, you just pull the hell back, call in T70 then the HT is toasted.
You still have the map control and spam T70 to the end and free win
And even with this, all you need is one ATG, and maxims I believe do a bit of damage to the halftrack, esp wit their ability.
Had fun doing this earlier
7 Jul 2013, 06:59 AM
#15
Posts: 41
There is no drawbacks spamming those Maxim, while flamer HT comes, you just pull the hell back, call in T70 then the HT is toasted.
You still have the map control and spam T70 to the end and free win
I know it will be hard for you but there is something like support vs T70 its called AT units.
Try snipers and mortars too to maintain some map control, you dont need whole map only fuel and then spam tanks ( you need only one - panzer that is faster on backpedaling than consritps on "oorah") and GG.
7 Jul 2013, 08:52 AM
#16
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedMaxims currently have 3 issues:
-Their DPS is too high vs low model Ost units.
-When put in buildings, Ost is categorically fkd to get them out, except for FHT.
Morrtars are too innaccurate and dont hit buildings hard enough to counteract Maxim map control from buildings, especially at this timing. Rifle Grenades are not a viable building.
-Maxim 6 man crew is too resilient to all forms of available fire, except the FHT. Snipers take too long to decrew, Rifle Grenades are too random and must be shot from out of LoS, Ost cannot frontally assault Maxim because they have no HtD equivalent.
-Their DPS is too high vs low model Ost units.
-When put in buildings, Ost is categorically fkd to get them out, except for FHT.
Morrtars are too innaccurate and dont hit buildings hard enough to counteract Maxim map control from buildings, especially at this timing. Rifle Grenades are not a viable building.
-Maxim 6 man crew is too resilient to all forms of available fire, except the FHT. Snipers take too long to decrew, Rifle Grenades are too random and must be shot from out of LoS, Ost cannot frontally assault Maxim because they have no HtD equivalent.
7 Jul 2013, 14:50 PM
#17
Posts: 194
I know it will be hard for you but there is something like support vs T70 its called AT units.
Try snipers and mortars too to maintain some map control, you dont need whole map only fuel and then spam tanks ( you need only one - panzer that is faster on backpedaling than consritps on "oorah") and GG.
The german sniper. german mortar, and Pak40 occupy prime slots in the "Most Useless Units in CoH2" at the moment. They don't counter/do anything. And because the sniper/pak40 is so expensive, it's a high cost usually bad return to get them.
I agree with all of Nullist's points, especially buildings.
Keep in mind that all of this is due to delicate timings. Yes, a P4 or a Tiger will counter maxims, but not in the first 1-10 minutes.
7 Jul 2013, 18:16 PM
#18
Posts: 255
German snipers are under rated, i find them extremely effective if the soviets go t2(maxim building) as they will not have anything that can catch/kill a micro'd sniper and he will just keep plinking away causing MP drain, but the mortar. yes it is terrible at countering anything.
7 Jul 2013, 18:31 PM
#19
Posts: 476
Well, not only can you get 3 Maxims for 2 Snipers but also they take ages to take a maxim down AND often the Maxim can attack them if the Snipers attack from the front. If you want totally no Mapcontroll Snipers could be good. P.S. they miss so much against Buildings.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
7 Jul 2013, 18:46 PM
#20
Posts: 255
50% miss rate vs buildings. and they are not bad, yes it takes some time to decrew a maxim but they help. and when you get vet, which doesnt take as long now its 75% 25% you can stun the entire maxim crew then rush with a gren squad = dead maxim
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