Feedback on German commanders

No wonder that Pak43 that a dev built behind a row of trees, in a tourney game on Kholodny, was killing tanks down the main road. Is this a bug or a feature?

Great feedback Barton

Its a feature.

Tiger is way too weak right now, it can be taken down so quickly.

Also i would like to see my friends command tank give me the buffs aswell, that would make it a team game you know. Same thing goes for hulldown, would be really nice if your teammate could make my tanks stationary turret bunkers.

I'm surprised you rate the Tiger that high, imo it's way too expensive for what it can do. It either loses in a long range shootout to a su85 or it gets rammed by a t34.

if you provide good support to Tiger it's hard to get it killed, of course range is too small for Tiger, it should be fixed, but it really has a good penetration, damage and reload speed

While I like the guide as such I thought I'd give some feedback on the scoring on the different abilities.

Many of the abilities have very "high" scores on a scale of 1-10 even though you basically write it off as useless in the analysis. Usually an ability that is complete crap and never useful in any situation whatsoever would be a 1, an ability that is completely useless except in extremely specific situations about a 3, with the "this isnt very good, it's just pretty bad but at least it does something consistently" ones going to about 4-5 and then up for the ones that are actually useful.

It would be useful to know your frame of reference, I.e. what the different scores "mean" to you when you rate the abilities. When I see a "7/10" I'm thinking "wow, that's a high score" and 10/10 would be a perfectly designed ability in regards to usefulness, theme, cost, and how fun it was to use.

Examples; Both relief infantry and hull down sounds pretty crappy in your description. One "making all your tanks very vulnerable to everything, might be good on a panther" and relief infantry "only good if you have lots of infantry and loose them in large numbers, and the units you get are very weak" and they still get a 7 and an 8.

Some feedback on the analysis itself;

Relief Infantry; Perhaps add that it only works while activated during a fairly short window. This makes it a lot worse, since infantry dies very quickly and often randomly mid/late game and it's very easy to miss the short "window" that the ability gives.

Tactical Movement; Actually has a lot of unility in letting an attack outflank enemy support weapons, reach buildings chase down retreating tanks with schrecks. The ability description hints a little at some sort of defensive bonus, but that is unconfirmed.

Apparently it's possible to mine the actual stats and effects from the game (described in this post; http://www.coh2.org/topic/2199/coh-stats-v2/post/49518). That sort of information (whether there is an actual defense bonus for the tactical movement for example) would be a great complement to the guide.

Thanks for the work so far!

most of my ratings are 6+ because all these abilities have some good sides, only tactical movements and ambush camouflage seems useless while all other can be used with good results

i've rated things like that
1-5: very useless, you shouldn't use that
6-7: might be, it's not the best option but if you don't have any other option and you are floating resources then why not
8-9: very useful stuff, it will definitely be a good choice
10: this ability is OP or very good, you must use that for sure

Tiger is way too weak right now, it can be taken down so quickly.

Also i would like to see my friends command tank give me the buffs aswell, that would make it a team game you know. Same thing goes for hulldown, would be really nice if your teammate could make my tanks stationary turret bunkers.

I agree, the Tiger really needs a buff in everything, armor, penetration, and sight, as well as not act like a kt in CoH1 when it's engine is damaged. On a bigger note I really think that the devs should consider lowering or even getting rid of the fuel requirements needed to get the Tiger, IS-2, ISU-152, and other heavy tanks from the selected doctrines for each faction. Sure you can get them easily in 3v3 and 4v4, but for 2v2, and especially 1v1 it would have to be a one hour, drawn out, long game, where you'd have to save literally all your fuel to get it, therefore have a very minimum amount of armor on the field, and even when the Tiger is out it's absolute crap compared to the SU-85, IS-2, or ISU-152, and can easily get destroyed, slowed, and penetrated.

Yes to removing or lowering fuel costs.

But good god, please fix ISU-152 first, that thing is absolutely retarded when it hits the field. Instant GG unless you're super behind. I don't want to go through a patch cycle where the ISU-152 is super affordable and have to face it every game.

Fuel cost from heavy tanks should be hardly lowered, but the MP cost should stay the same or even be higher than now, because is i want to get elefant now, pretty fast i'm forced to play only with T1-T2 because i can't afford to spend for example 95 fuel on Stug III and wait like 3-6 minutes more for elefant

Good post, although the 'ratings' don't really say too much.

edit: also agreed with posts about heavy tank fuel costs.

okay, my feedback is, i think, fully completed

the hull down is why so good? it wont get motor dmg when dropped anti tank nade?
and somebody know what kind of bonus the ambush camoflage gives you?

I agree with almost everything you say. I think the Elefant is fine as it is -- properly supported it becomes incredibly difficult to take out. I can see the Fortified Armor Commander's Elefant/Command Tank combination allowing a German player to stay in Tier 2 until 4 CPs, spending all of their fuel on call-ins.

I've really enjoyed using the Joint Operations Commander in team games. The Field Artillery Officer's Focused Barrage ability is just amazing. It gives German Mortars effectively double range (and the same for Howitzers/Panzerwerfers).

We ought to test out ambush camouflage more. I can see it being quite useful on winter maps because squads with the upgrade should be able to move through deep snow invisibly. I don't know about effectivness in 1v1s, but in larger games this can be a great way to bypass HMGs and sneak behind enemies. Rzhev Winter, Oka River, Moscow Winter, and City 17 Winter all have large areas full of deep snow. Also, late game when there are craters all over I imagine such a squad could advance invisibly across open ground.

can you do this on Sovjets as well?
Really informative

Germans need a call in infantry. Osttruppen would fit that roll perfectly. Since german inf are already good a weaker call in fits well. Plus they look so cool and that would improve that doctrine 10 fold.