Sov vs OKW: Broken Match up

maxim spam shuts down okw entirely.

I'm assuming this is an over exaggeration because I do not see 100% win rate as SOV on coh2chart.com or are those losses all attributed to playing against OST and non-maxim builds?

I'm assuming this is an over exaggeration because I do not see 100% win rate as SOV on coh2chart.com or are those losses all attributed to playing against OST and non-maxim builds?

im sorry, do you have any experiences vs decent opponents in modes that matter competetively?

maxim spam does shut down okw very early on and its undeniable. you have to count on mistakes by the soviet to have a chance later on.

im sorry, do you have any experiences vs decent opponents in modes that matter competetively?

maxim spam does shut down okw very early on and its undeniable. you have to count on mistakes by the soviet to have a chance later on.

Sooo, I'm not using my so-called "irrelevant" experience. I'm using this:

http://coh2chart.com/

Please counter that as stated in my post.

Sooo, I'm not using my so-called "irrelevant" experience. I'm using this:

http://coh2chart.com/

Please counter that as stated in my post.

fine i will just use a counter example.

ostheers 1v1 winrate during the elite troops times, with grens being blatantly op which led to streaks of 80+, wasnt 100% either.

does it mean ostheer wasnt shutting down soviets completely? no. a 100% winrate scenario wont be ever achieved unless everyone is using hard hacks.

you know, there is a fine yet distinctive difference between these stats and actual reality. you have to count both in, not just get your fine data and yell that its not 100%.

oh yeah btw, okw winrate in 1v1 is the lowest, while the soviet one is the highest along with UKF. you like stats so much, here you go.

I'm assuming this is an over exaggeration because I do not see 100% win rate as SOV on coh2chart.com or are those losses all attributed to playing against OST and non-maxim builds?

You cant be that fanatic to believe what you just wrote there, right?

You cant be that fanatic to believe what you just wrote there, right?

If you can't see the sarcasm, I'm telling you it is now. I'm not the one claiming that Maxims completely shut down another faction.

fine i will just use a counter example.

ostheers 1v1 winrate during the elite troops times, with grens being blatantly op which led to streaks of 80+, wasnt 100% either.

does it mean ostheer wasnt shutting down soviets completely? no. a 100% winrate scenario wont be ever achieved unless everyone is using hard hacks.

you know, there is a fine yet distinctive difference between these stats and actual reality. you have to count both in, not just get your fine data and yell that its not 100%.

oh yeah btw, okw winrate in 1v1 is the lowest, while the soviet one is the highest along with UKF. you like stats so much, here you go.

Shutting something/someone down means there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. Is it unbalanced? Maybe, but I do not see SOV rank 1 on ESL cups. I only quoted you because you made an extreme argument.

And here's the order of the debate for those reading:
Someone makes a exaggerated claim
I reply that that's an exaggeration
Now, posters lose sight of the original point and begins to quote me for unknown opinions

If you believe that maxims always makes OKW lose, please keep on quoting me so I can continue to read your claims.

My Sov rank is only 160 but I find it easier to use maxims against okw than try and deal with them as the okw. Maybe it's just a playstyle thing but I just find 1 con into maxims into guards into double t70 good.

Maximspam requires micro now?

You are aware that the maxims cone is like 70% narrower than all the other mgs in the game, right?

If you can't see the sarcasm, I'm telling you it is now. I'm not the one claiming that Maxims completely shut down another faction.



Shutting something/someone down means there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. Is it unbalanced? Maybe, but I do not see SOV rank 1 on ESL cups. I only quoted you because you made an extreme argument.

And here's the order of the debate for those reading:
Someone makes a exaggerated claim
I reply that that's an exaggeration
Now, posters lose sight of the original point and begins to quote me for unknown opinions

If you believe that maxims always makes OKW lose, please keep on quoting me so I can continue to read your claims.

you asked me to counter your point, and i delivered. its your turn now i suppose.

by shutting down i mean a distinct lack of counters to it. ostheer can rely on snipers and mortars as a response. okw can count...yea on what exactly? on vehicles that come late due to you not having much mapcontrol, which are then countered by either zis guns or soviet t3 anyway?

it is not just unbalanced, its ridiculous how easy it to basically a move up your okw opponents arse. go out there and witness it yourself.

im sorry, do you have any experiences vs decent opponents in modes that matter competetively?

maxim spam does shut down okw very early on and its undeniable. you have to count on mistakes by the soviet to have a chance later on.

Nothing more to say +1.

You are aware that the maxims cone is like 70% narrower than all the other mgs in the game, right?

You are aware i am talking about spamming said maxims? You know, making more than 1 and covering each other? Or that hmg's in houses all have the same arc? Making this smaller cone thing a non-issue?
Are you?

I actually find Grens to be reasonably priced, and worth their weight in many cases. Certainly, you can use them as mainline infantry far more than conscripts if you stick to cover and upgrade them; with G43s they can tackle anything short of fully upgraded rifles or shocks.

And also rifle nade is ridiculously good, especially against support weapons.

My feelings are that Soviets are way too slow. The new OKW is way too fast. You get sturms to start out which of course will outclass combat engineers and conscripts, and a good OKW player always rushes their sturms to the enemy's cutoff / fuel, and they will win the first engagement by doing so.

Then there's the new kubel. The new kubel is still quite decent offensively and can take on a conscript squad alone if it's careful. The main problem I have though is that its capping ability gives OKW an absolute massive advantage. They now don't have to cap points with their sturmpios or volksgrenadiers, they can rush those powerful squads straight at the enemy and leave a kubel to cap the less important resource points incredibly quickly (due to its movement speed and capping speed combined).

My suggestion is to increase the price of volks a little bit since they are over-performing, and return the kubel back to the way it was before, or at least lock its capping ability behind vet 1 so that it cannot just allow OKW to bumrush you from the start. I just see it every single match, OKW don't have to spend time building a base structure like Soviet players do, which means automatically OKW has the upper hand from the get go. Not only that, but anything they send at you will dominate whatever you send at them since all their starting units are better than what you can make (Volks > Cons, Sturms >>>> combat engies, etc.)

Another suggestion is to increase the fuel price of the Luchs. This unit used to come out too late in the last patch since it was locked inside the Schwerer, but now it comes out WAY too early, by the time its out a SOV player won't have any counter unless he really fucked up the OKW player badly somehow. This is especially true if the soviet player went for T1.

Some other suggestions are to buff the penal squad or give them a price decrease down to ~250 manpower considering how shitty their performance is right now. They are just dogshit and not worth the 30 extra manpower they require.

I agree with OP ... it feels like Cons are the new Volks (at least in the early game) feels a bit too easy to just brute force them down with Volks and StrumPios. Nothing like having Cons sitting in cover and just watching Strums YOLO at them and still win. The fact that maxim spam is pretty meta just underlines this as does the fact that most of the meta commanders have elite infantry call-ins - the mere thought of not having Guards or Shocks makes me cringe.

Btw, maxims don't work that well in 2v2, because in the mid/late game your maxims inevitably get Panzerwerfered to shit. Oh, and so do your mortars, and AT guns.

Maxims are too slow to avoid the Panzerwerfer barrage and one by one they will all get wiped, while the enemy casually walks out of your Katyusha barrage and laughs at you.

Another suggestion is to increase the fuel price of the Luchs. This unit used to come out too late in the last patch since it was locked inside the Schwerer, but now it comes out WAY too early, by the time its out a SOV player won't have any counter unless he really fucked up the OKW player badly somehow.

Actually, Luchs was about the same before. You had 40 starting fuel, so you only needed to gather 85+60 = 145 fuel to get a luchs. Right now you have to spend 15+60+65 = 140 fuel. With conversion you also could have nearly identical fuel income as you do now. I was doing a lot of ~7-10 minute luchs builds before Relic nuked OKW which is more or less what I see people doing right now. The only different is the old Luchs required you to economize to get it at the timing while the current one is easy peezy to get.


There's about 100 problems with current OKW and 90% of them stem from the increased income. Are we really just going to keep increasing the cost of OKW units to compensate? Or we can revert this stupid fucking patch already and tweak OKW in a more intelligent manner.

/rant I hate the new OKW design with a passion. It's not even fun to play anymore.

A maxim for every volks leaves a sturmpioneer ready to murderface.

He even gets a flame nade which puts molotov to shame.

I have found that if you FORCE the okw player to use the flame nades by spamming maxim, you can cripple his AT so that your t70 can have a few moments of glory.

Regarding spios, I have been holding back my first con squad till i have at least 2 and the spio is immediately focused.

Whenever you find yourself too close to kill at least one model on a spio, oorah away to cover or to another con squad to make sure you can kill models.

It requires a lot more work than what he is doing but you can put a big hurt on his early/mid game if you pull it off.

Btw, maxims don't work that well in 2v2, because in the mid/late game your maxims inevitably get Panzerwerfered to shit. Oh, and so do your mortars, and AT guns.

Maxims are too slow to avoid the Panzerwerfer barrage and one by one they will all get wiped, while the enemy casually walks out of your Katyusha barrage and laughs at you.

T1 definitely needs a buff in this case.

You are aware i am talking about spamming said maxims? You know, making more than 1 and covering each other? Or that hmg's in houses all have the same arc? Making this smaller cone thing a non-issue?

Scrap your attitude wise-ass. Since when does merely building more than 1 of something constitute a spam? And maxims in buildings are hilariously easy to counter as OKW, your mainline infantry that almost everyone spams gets a flame grenade that puts the molotov to shame.

I see wermacht players build two mg42s all the time, is that a spam, hmm? Because 2 mg42s can cover far more area than 2 maxims, and they do a better job of it as well. Luchs hardcounters maxim spam, and the sovs then need at nades and a zis if the want to kill it, or guards and zis.

Scrap your attitude wise-ass. Since when does merely building more than 1 of something constitute a spam? And maxims in buildings are hilariously easy to counter as OKW, your mainline infantry that almost everyone spams gets a flame grenade that puts the molotov to shame.

I see wermacht players build two mg42s all the time, is that a spam, hmm? Because 2 mg42s can cover far more area than 2 maxims, and they do a better job of it as well. Luchs hardcounters maxim spam, and the sovs then need at nades and a zis if the want to kill it, or guards and zis.

How odd, i merely replied the same way you replied to me.
As for the rest of your post have you ever faced maximspam? Cuz i can tell you luchs is no hard counter.
and flame nades? gl getting close to the building with a maxim in it.

As for the spamming part, there was this achievement in DOW that unlocked the moment you build 2 units of the same type. It's name? spammer
But truly, 2 is not a good maximspam.
Try 4, and see what happens

But what do i know? It's not like i spam maxims every game as sov now