Ostheer is on life support

Elaboration #2 based ... on your posts:


- ofcourse your posts have value, how you can dare blame me that Im biased or WTF are you triing to say
- but content of you pousts have low to no value
- all related to this topic
- low value or no elaboration of your toughts

- counters you mentioned are counters indeed but not lead by your(player) skill but by opponents mistakes

- Still Cant find your player card
- i link only source of informations about you skill i was able to find

Uhh - wut? I never said anything about bias?

I'm sorry i really don't know where to start here. First of my playercard works just fine.

The content of my posts have little value because i don't elaborate on them? how much detail do you want here? i mean - i can't play the game for you really. I draw out specific aspects of the gameplay that i find relevant for the topic in discussion. How is that of "Low to no value"?

"counters you mentioned are counters indeed but not lead by your(player) skill but by opponents mistakes"

How is good positioning - made by the OH player - reacting on his opponents bad play?

Upgrade for 251, like Katikof said, with 3,7cm or with 7,5cm.

Upgrade for 251, like Katikof said, with 3,7cm or with 7,5cm.

NICE & GJ!!! you should replace rear MG too!

Now without fun, we should ask for 250HT with small gun. This unit can cause hearth attack to allies fanboys.

Lol, that is irrelevant. Luchs comes in way earlier than T70 does. It has a huge window to do whatever it wants before T70 hits the field (if there is no ZiS....)

No stats or facts to back this none-sense claim up.

2 minutes of my searching (which i shouldn't even be doing, since it's you making the claims about a "huge window")

Luchs: 15+55+65-10=125 fuel to get out

T-70: 20+85+70-20=155 fuel (assuming sov went t2)

So, 30 fuel, equals about 1 minute equal map control.
What a huge window indeed, i advice you never to play ostheer.

And that's without taking in consideration the fact that with maxims, the sov player will be dominating the okw player or the guards, that excell at light vehicle fighting and can fight inf aswell.

Next time you wish to claim something i say is irrelevant, provide stats or facts, else you're just another forum warrior hell bent on disagreeing with w/e opposes his view without bothering with reality.

'
I see, you are one of the types that think ostheer is perfectly balanced. And the whole light vehicle problem for ostheer is a little bit of L2P, amr?

Some people just dont like to be told it directly that its a L2P issue. Its also not helpful to just say L2P without giving some explanation as to why.

I would like to start by saying yes, i am a known usf fanboy. No, this thread isnt troll.

...

Right now, ostheer is truly on life support(the panzerwerfer) and I think theyre about to die. So can we please do something and help ostheer out. I cant play them, and no one else will play them. And its a shame because I like them alot, theyre design is great, and so is there concept overall. Fix the power creep and buff them to be like brits please.

You do realize not many ppl are gonna listen to you because you were (maybe still are) a US super-fanboi?

And I can already see how this post is filled with your fds saying no to everything; hope that they don't flame as hard coz it's you that wrote it.

Imagine the old AT halftruck, with inmovilize target skills, would be hatefull

...

How is good positioning - made by the OH player - reacting on his opponents bad play?

OK OK lets elaborate ... you like it

T70 example:

Faust range = 30
Grens speed = 3

T70 view range = 70
T70 fire range = 40
T70 speed = 6.9

MG42 fire range = 45

Numbers above show that T70 can spot grens on more than twice of range of panzershreck, T70 can punch grens into face from distance that is 133% of panzhershreck range and T70 can move more than twice faster as grens can move.

Also MG42 max fire range is just 5 points higher than T70s

If we take into this example delay for a) abbility trigger (animation) b) time that panzerfaust need to reach T70 c) distance that T70 will drive till he is stoped/slowed by panzerfaust d)to pack MG e) to move into "good positionin" f) to unpack MG g) reload API ammo h) aim time i) time for 2 burst


We can assume T70 owner is:

- NOOB - because he drive T70 into panzerfaus & vet1 MG range
- GREEDY - because he drive T70 into panzerfaus & vet1 MG range
- AFK - he leave to pee or urget lunch
- OTHER - this is part of microintensive battle where destiny of T70 is irrelevant
- OTHER, OTHER - ....

Imagine the old AT halftruck, with inmovilize target skills, would be hatefull

Judging by AEC vet1, unlikely as the ability was already transfered into coh2 in different, much less useful form.

Upgrade for 251, like Katikof said, with 3,7cm or with 7,5cm.

Why have that so it could be as wierd as the OKW flak half track? P3 better and kooler mang.

And holy shit the amount of replies.


@all of you saying light vehicles is what allows allies to break through, you might have a point, except USF late game is pretty much on par with Ostheer and then some with assuming Pershing or calliope commander. And early mid is still in USF favor because the Stuart would still be the best light vehicle, the p3 could again just prevent an allied player from just trolololol the entire map with one vehicle for the first 10 minutes... if you can't see that as a problem please literally play 2 games as Ostheer vs a top 100 USF UKF opponent. Please open your eyes..

@ those telling me to use incendiary rounds and what not, please stop. You made me laugh so hard this morning I farted. Again the people I play aren't braindead and don't drive their Stuart's in ass first or forget to pop smoke on their AEC.

ostheer dominated in 1v1 tournament? that must be some sort of joke. I work Sunday's so I usually miss the majority of the ESL casts.

I see 0 ways for Ostheer to beat quality AEC or m20+Stuart+ quad cheese. I do infact remember seeing a few replays of multiple AEC strats owning some poor Ostheer player, however, including the same thing happening to me. I constantly see allied pride posts over Ostheer players.
never any Ostheer win in the replay section. Everytime I check in a stream, Ostheer is getting murdered or barely hanging on.


seriously, who knows how to play Ostheer at a high level right now? Whoever and where ever you are can you please come out and shed some light.

I think it is a good post. I especially agree on the issues with the Tiger and Panther. Both go down too easily. The Tiger doesn´t give you the feeling of having a heavy tank. Sure, it kills infantry quite reliable on 45 range. Yet the vehicle has to be used in a shoot and scoot manner. If you expose it, it goes down very fast. A heavy tank should be able to take a beating.

Panthers are just garbage. They go down even faster and with engine damage - which they easily receive - they are as good as dead. I would like to see this vehicle have the role of a Sniper or as the OP mentioned decent AI capabilities. For anything else the StuG is better. Not only for cost but also by sheer dps. So a StuG costing you not even half the fuel dishes out way better dps. That bit more speed and health on the Panther does not justify that.

Combined with British lategame AT capabilities Ostheer tanks are mediocre at best. No quality here. Thus the whole faction lacks an identity.

Why have that so it could be as wierd as the OKW flak half track? P3 better and kooler mang.

IF there was a p3 there wouldn't be a single reason to get flame HT or 222.

Plus p3 cost will be around 60 fuel + cost of tier2 and tech up so you still wouldn't have a real early counter to light vehicules.

Upgrade for 251, like Katikof said, with 3,7cm or with 7,5cm.

That's what i meant few posts before. Perfect!

IF there was a p3 there wouldn't be a single reason to get flame HT or 222.

Plus p3 cost will be around 60 fuel + cost of tier2 and tech up so you still wouldn't have a real early counter to light vehicules.

this is all theorycrafting and prayer but still,

#1 you could get 222 for M3 and M20 and UC, so vs LT tier and T1 you'd be good.

#2 Vs early emplacement, MG spam, or fighting pit spam you could still get a Flame halftrack.

#3 vs captain tier,AEC tech, t70's you have the P3 to match. and then so on and so forth.

Right now you cant even use the first two because of the units from #3.




also as I read through this thread, in reply to pak walls and MGs being unbeatable, I dont think MG spam pak wall into p3 into T3 would be OP at all, no more OP than brits AEC 6 pdr vicker wall into cromwell.

The only reason brits get away with this so well is because ostheer can do shit in comparison/return. Ill admit im not the best okw player as im simply not a fan of the faction at all but from what ive seen, OKW holds on pretty well vs brits and has alot of early and obviously late game tools.

I think it is a good post. I especially agree on the issues with the Tiger and Panther. Both go down too easily. The Tiger doesn´t give you the feeling of having a heavy tank. Sure, it kills infantry quite reliable on 45 range. Yet the vehicle has to be used in a shoot and scoot manner. If you expose it, it goes down very fast. A heavy tank should be able to take a beating.

Panthers are just garbage. They go down even faster and with engine damage - which they easily receive - they are as good as dead. I would like to see this vehicle have the role of a Sniper or as the OP mentioned decent AI capabilities. For anything else the StuG is better. Not only for cost but also by sheer dps. So a StuG costing you not even half the fuel dishes out way better dps. That bit more speed and health on the Panther does not justify that.

Combined with British lategame AT capabilities Ostheer tanks are mediocre at best. No quality here. Thus the whole faction lacks an identity.

AT counters tanks, even heavy ones.

More news at 11.

Panther will never be a tank sniper, unless you'll make it slow and squishy, like FF. Its a brawler, TANK brawler, not TD one.

Also just because panther isn't a no brainer unit, doesn't mean its bad.

Combo of panther and stug will perform much better then 2 stugs and you will still have some AI as panthers MGs combined are quite potent as it was recenly proven in another thread where it was compared to comet.

Don't try to fix what isn't broken, there isn't any issue with tiger or panther.
You complain they go down to AT?
What do allies have to say when faced against ele or JT?

edit: not needed anymore now that real derailer go invis'd

I think it is a good post. I especially agree on the issues with the Tiger and Panther. Both go down too easily. The Tiger doesn´t give you the feeling of having a heavy tank. Sure, it kills infantry quite reliable on 45 range. Yet the vehicle has to be used in a shoot and scoot manner. If you expose it, it goes down very fast. A heavy tank should be able to take a beating.

Panthers are just garbage. They go down even faster and with engine damage - which they easily receive - they are as good as dead. I would like to see this vehicle have the role of a Sniper or as the OP mentioned decent AI capabilities. For anything else the StuG is better. Not only for cost but also by sheer dps. So a StuG costing you not even half the fuel dishes out way better dps. That bit more speed and health on the Panther does not justify that.

Combined with British lategame AT capabilities Ostheer tanks are mediocre at best. No quality here. Thus the whole faction lacks an identity.

Ok not sure if this is a troll post but let's calm down a little bit.

"Tiger doesn't give you the feeling of having a heavy tank."

What? I'm sure you've been playing this game for a long time, but the Tiger I and IS-2 are the bars by which all other heavy tanks are measured. They've been in the game since the beginning and they are fine, susceptible to slight buffs or debuffs from time to time, but they are the quintessential heavies. You seem to think all should heavies should be these invincible, "one unit army" type things whereby you can leave it alone, unsupported, and suffer no consequences. That's just not how this game works. Every unit needs support and you can't expect a lone, isolated unit to live forever.

Oh and as far as heavy tanks being able to take a beating... Pershing? Lol.

And the Panther is garbage?? What world do you live in where a tank with the absolute best armor in the game, high speed and mobility, and a great anti-tank cannon is considered "garbage?" About 3/4 of Allied armor has no chance of penetrating the frontal armor of a Panther, and even the tank destroyers and heavies will bounce frontal armor shots half the time as well. And btw, you can make the Panthers work against infantry when you do the same w/ the Jackson, SU-85, and Firefly.

Tigers and Panthers "going down too fast." Ostheer has some problems, but this isn't it.

The problem - certainly in 1v1 at least - isn't the Wermacht late game, the problem is the 6-12 minute window. Lets circle back to that rather than discuss Tigers and Panthers.

OK OK lets elaborate ... you like it

T70 example:

Faust range = 30
Grens speed = 3

T70 view range = 70
T70 fire range = 40
T70 speed = 6.9

MG42 fire range = 45

Numbers above show that T70 can spot grens on more than twice of range of panzershreck, T70 can punch grens into face from distance that is 133% of panzhershreck range and T70 can move more than twice faster as grens can move.

Also MG42 max fire range is just 5 points higher than T70s

If we take into this example delay for a) abbility trigger (animation) b) time that panzerfaust need to reach T70 c) distance that T70 will drive till he is stoped/slowed by panzerfaust d)to pack MG e) to move into "good positionin" f) to unpack MG g) reload API ammo h) aim time i) time for 2 burst


We can assume T70 owner is:

- NOOB - because he drive T70 into panzerfaus & vet1 MG range
- GREEDY - because he drive T70 into panzerfaus & vet1 MG range
- AFK - he leave to pee or urget lunch
- OTHER - this is part of microintensive battle where destiny of T70 is irrelevant
- OTHER, OTHER - ....

You forget that on some maps, the T70's high vision isn't usable to its fullest potential. Faust + incendiary rounds don't counter the T70, but can act as deterrent in certain situations. A Pak backed by a vet 1 MG and fausts shouldn't be dislodged by a light vehicle unless the Ostheer player placed his units incorrectly or was flanked.

Your objective is merely to hold the light vehicle at bay until the Stug comes out and stomps it, not destroy it outright. Just one Pak shot can give you almost a minute, depending on how daring your opponent is and where his repair units are. Since the Stug should arrive about 2 minutes later (assuming similar map control) the faction's inherent weakness during that time pays off later on thanks to their very powerful lategame, good selection of medium vehicles, very scalable T1 units, and possibly the best doctrine selection of all 5 factions.

I mean, people are saying Ostheer has trouble, yet their winrates are globally alright, even if they dipped after the AEC overbuff, and in tournaments they shine. This is a far cry from, say, pre-buff Brits that almost no one played and never got picked in tournaments.