There is no point playing Ostheer 1v1 anymore

I bet Ostheer will be really OP after this next patch unless Soviets are buffed in other areas. Try using a doctrine that doesn't have HTD/Shocks and don't make M3s or T70. The way it is right now flanking isn't rewarding at all because rifles are pathetic at close range. Even molotovs aren't very good against someone that isn't stupid enough to stand in them.

I completely agree with you basilone the only 2 really OP unita atm are the t70 due to its accuracy and how quick it can come and the M3 due to the open toped ness but the rest of hte soviet army is either balanced really well (cons su-85) or are just well bad, T-34 and penal's.


One of my biggist gripes is the huge vaccum between these types, if i go for HtD con spam into with some M3's and either t70 rush or into su85's i will most likely win unless i lost the early game. but if i limit myself and do not use a t70 or M3 or maxim spam it is actually quite hard to win as soviets.


Another gripe is the cost of the penal's i love these guys but they are just so damn bad compared to there cost. penal vs Pgrens is not even close, 360 MP for such a fragile unit is just ludicrous.

Not to mention how terribly dull it can be when you are forced into only 2 building in 99% of matchs, if i get T1 and i dont dominate the map with the M3(get ambushed and loose it, 222 rushes from behind a building) and i loose map control and next min i see a flame half track there is nothing i can do except wait out for t3/4 (90 fuel) and then at least 55 fuel for the cheapest counter,
i could go t2 for the zis which is micro'd well can kill it but i have delayed my tank's soo much it is basically GG.


Tl;DR if you nerf the OP units please make sure the rest of the soviet army can function i dont like comp stomps , from either side of the fence

The term "broken" is thrown around so much these days it looses it meaning, go find a truly broken game then come back. not perfect? ill agree to that, needs work? sure, broken? hell no, not if youve seen the vast sea of broken to shitty broken game that are actually out there.

Yup.

I read a lot of feedback every day, and when someone starts using the word "broken" it's a bit of a red flag for me. Even we don't think the game is perfect, and that's why feedback is so invaluable, but the game isn't broken.

Yup.

I read a lot of feedback every day, and when someone starts using the word "broken" it's a bit of a red flag for me. Even we don't think the game is perfect, and that's why feedback is so invaluable, but the game isn't broken.

Simcity is Broken

Agreed.

I am raging right now over a 2v2 game. Trying to have fun with a friend, come out kicking and screaming. Then I remember: its 2v2.

I still stand by my opinion that patches need to be released carefully, but it is a little frustrating to see most games devolve into the same kind of slugfest.

One of my biggest gripes with the game right now, is not having a specific role for every kind of unit out there. We literally have "useless" units, out there that I think the devs could improve upon (which will offer alternate strategies and solutions).

I want to constructively mention which of these I mean:

Stug: Its not a bad tank, but its got no real personality anymore. It doesn't give me anything that a PIV or an Ostwind can't do, and the price isn't that much better to justify it.

M3 Halftrack:This vehicle is not being used as intended. Its ont a mobile reinforce point, its a "scout car with two slots and better armor". Again though, the price doesn't justify it. Im better off going scout car. So it goes unused unless you need the heavy anti infantry upgrade (people tend to go shock troops for this, though).

SU-75: I give you the barrage for free, but lackluster AT. Its not a ZiS, and its not a SU-85. Same problem a StuG: Im better off choosing the specialized unit than this.

Brummbar: The most unused unit, bar none. Inconsistent results with its shots against infantry, slower than the ostwind and slower rate of fire make this a completely useless unit. The ONLY reason to get it, is if you need extra armor to deal with the infantry hordes, but its better to get a panzerwerfer and deal with it from a safe distance. Its less expensive, too!

What I mean is, these units are "holes" in the tech trees, buttons that you rarely press for results. I think, like I said earlier, if these units could find their place in an army composition, some of the many "repeated" scenarios could be spiced up more.

^ CombatMuffin FTW.

Virtually every unit in vCoH had utility. CoH2 doesn't although of course it's early days. Of course I am only referencing Amis and Wehr.

Combat muffin i have seen more brumbars than penal battlions but i can still count on my left hand the amount of times seen them.

/agree muffinman

Simcity is Broken

I've never had issues with it, but I don't play much and I didn't play opening week. But yes, that's a better example.

So after reading this entire post I figured I'd chime in as well from a different perspective. I've played about 90% of my games as Soviet since early beta. I had been doing very well until open beta, and since then I've essentially lost nearly every one of my 1v1 games to Ostheer with the exception of my opponent rage quitting from Sniper clown car. That being said, I've won literally every single Ostheer game I've played, team game or 1v1.


I feel that with the early usage of a well micro'd MG42 or two its quite easy to retain enough fuel / map control to get p4's out around 10-12 minutes into the game. Generally as Soviet I find myself pinholed into choosing the PPSH/HTD Doctrine that includes Guards Rifles so I can compete with early MG42 Gren squads + Pin to win / Medic bunkers as well as scout cars to counter my M3. Once I've committed to this strategy I have no option of being able to go back and make the vastly expensive Shock Troops to counter any sort of Pgren T2 terror strategy. That being said I find Ostheer to be the more reactive race, because it's simply easy to counter Soviets as our doctrine choices are what makes gives us our elite infantry(Guards/Shock) and makes our conscripts viable after the 10 minute mark (PPSH).

If you've noticed guards rifles on the field and HTD (Very common) as the Ostheer player, you can immediately say "He's not getting Shock Troops this game to do a reasonable amount of damage to my infantry". This makes it easier to focus on a counter to infantry until ~15 minutes in when you should expect an SU-85 which is literally the only reliable AT that soviet gets. Guards rifles are a joke against anything past a scout car if they're left unsupported with AT guns. And if you build 360 MP Guards and 360 MP AT guns, you literally have jack shit to deal with infantry and will easily get ran over by Pgrens / MG lockdown.

Regarding T70's, I've noticed they're relatively effective against infantry, but in reality its the only unit worth building in T3. I've had mild success with 2x Guards half track, but one shrek squad puts an end to that quite quickly. T34's seem to be an enormous joke, because for slightly more fuel you can get an SU-85(not to mention T34 damage in comparison to it's supposed 'counter part' the P4) and have a building that at least makes another useful unit (Katyusha).


TL;DR

T70's squishy and bad stop losing to it. If you let them drive into your base and kill your infantry you earned your loss. I've chased retreating squads of 1 man and not even touched their health, yet Flamer HT will quite easily do the same on retreating squads, but doesn't require a shitty building and has a secondary purpose until you have the munitions to upgrade.

I feel that with the early usage of a well micro'd MG42 or two its quite easy to retain enough fuel / map control to get p4's out around 10-12 minutes into the game.

Quite true, MG42 is the key to the early game for Ostheer. My conscripts already complain that "The germans rely on MGs way too much.".
The problem is that a 10 minute PzIV won't help. The SU-85 *will* hit a minute later or so, even if you hold both fuel points. It's a much better idea to mindgame the Soviet by delaying the PzIV for 2-3 PGrens (who are pretty annoying to SU-85), which will also give you a chance at gaining map advantage, while he won't have enough troops because of his SU-85.
I've said it elsewhere already, the SU-85 needs to come out a little later, to encourage the Soviet to not overgo T3/T-34 and force some Zis-26 out of him.

If you've noticed guards rifles on the field and HTD (Very common) as the Ostheer player, you can immediately say "He's not getting Shock Troops this game to do a reasonable amount of damage to my infantry".

That's a pretty flawed argument, upgunned Guards are able to hold their own against all infantry very well and their grenade is pretty strong. I'd go so far and say Shock Troops are completely useless right now as Guards simply have too much versatility to ignore them. Guards are also far from a "Joke" vs. T3, their ability is extremely strong and if you have a couple of them they can take a PzIV down in a reasonable timeframe. They suck against Ostwind, obviously.

Soviet T3 is worthless at the moment, I agree. The T-34 needs a buff, the T-70 is alright and the half-track... does anyone ever use the half-track? (I do. But it's not pretty.)

Quite true, MG42 is the key to the early game for Ostheer. My conscripts already complain that "The germans rely on MGs way too much.".
The problem is that a 10 minute PzIV won't help. The SU-85 *will* hit a minute later or so, even if you hold both fuel points. It's a much better idea to mindgame the Soviet by delaying the PzIV for 2-3 PGrens (who are pretty annoying to SU-85), which will also give you a chance at gaining map advantage, while he won't have enough troops because of his SU-85.
I've said it elsewhere already, the SU-85 needs to come out a little later, to encourage the Soviet to not overgo T3/T-34 and force some Zis-26 out of him.


That's a pretty flawed argument, upgunned Guards are able to hold their own against all infantry very well and their grenade is pretty strong. I'd go so far and say Shock Troops are completely useless right now as Guards simply have too much versatility to ignore them.

Upgunned guards are a decent long range unit, their infantry damage is pretty lackluster from personal experience, however I agree their grenades are quite powerful - I find myself not being able to use them very often however because all my Muni is usually spent on Molotovs to get MG's out of buildings early and either AT nades + DP's/Button to kill early vehicles (fails anyways, way to go passive smoke doctrine)

Also we both know that 2-3 Guards can do a relative amount of damage to a P4 (not nearly what shreks can do) but no competent player is going to just drive a p4 into a bunch of Guards. One MG42 behind his p4 and all of my AT is insta pinned, forcing me to retreat or take huge losses while also not being able to do remotely enough damage to a P4.

Upgunned guards are a decent long range unit, their infantry damage is pretty lackluster from personal experience, however I agree their grenades are quite powerful - I find myself not being able to use them very often however because all my Muni is usually spent on Molotovs to get MG's out of buildings early and either AT nades + DP's/Button to kill early vehicles (fails anyways, way to go passive smoke doctrine)

If the enemy uses smoke, you have to - for once! - use the Guards as deterrent instead of just a-moving them across the map wherever that enemy vehicle is. You can't attack into a Guard'ed position, smoke helps you very little here.

Also we both know that 2-3 Guards can do a relative amount of damage to a P4 (not nearly what shreks can do) but no competent player is going to just drive a p4 into a bunch of Guards. One MG42 behind his p4 and all of my AT is insta pinned, forcing me to retreat or take huge losses while also not being able to do remotely enough damage to a P4.

You don't offensively fight with Guards vs PzIV, you stall the game until SU-85 arrives.

Stalling against MG42 spam on every VP for 18 minutes not my suggested strategy. I find myself often trying to cut off the german player simply so I can get back towards the center of the map before I lose. If I can't attack into a guarded position, I'm forced to apply pressure elsewhere. Seems like a legit tactic, however if he see's 1 of your 3 conscript squads at his cut off, pretty easy to just drive any vehicle thats not a scout car over and take me off of it while also not being able to advance out of the front of my base because I'm waiting the entire game to get a slow moving tank that will definitely not have any back up after my guards get pinned to either MG42s or retarded strong 120 muni fly in strafes.

I think it's fascinating that Enix has had an opposite experience to so many us playing Ost.

Enix, could you share you vCoH thoughts / experience and tell us if this has impacted on the way you've approached CoH2? Am intrigued.

Stalling against MG42 spam on every VP for 18 minutes not my suggested strategy.

18 minutes? SU-85 hits 2-3 minutes after PzIV.

I think it's fascinating that Enix has had an opposite experience to so many us playing Ost.

Enix, could you share you vCoH thoughts / experience and tell us if this has impacted on the way you've approached CoH2? Am intrigued.

I played quite a bit of British during vCoH, and Wehr before the expansion in vCoH and I felt like for the most part the games in vCoH could go one way or another (without knowing what to expect from my opponent - as far as "meta"). Although at the time I was caught up with competitive FPS so by no means was I a professional. To me, in CoH2, there feel's like there's strategic imbalances as opposed to unit imbalances. I feel like if I do strategy X as soviet its easily countered by smart players because the Ostheer isn't necessarily stuck with one build or the other(Where as much of soviet build relys almost 100% on our Commander choice with slight emphasis on whether we get Clowncars or Maxims). Since T1, T2, and T3 for Ost provides so much utility and variety its simple for the German army to simply say, he built this and he can't transition out or back tech in a timely or costly manner, so I can do THIS and build order win. Although my opinion isn't law, so I'm curious as to what everyone else's opinion is on the matter of recognizing the Soviet composition and building accordingly.

18 minutes? SU-85 hits 2-3 minutes after PzIV.

The fastest I've been able to successfully hold a portion of the map and get an SU-85 out is around a minute after I've seen the first P4. Although a common strategy now is T2 Pgren spam, and whenever they see any armor they just build a few shreks and just simply skip T3 and get the Tiger via your doctrine(which I've lost 2 SU-85's to a single Tiger with AT grenades and Guards backing them up).

Well, Brits had fixed / linear teching so I can't see the connection. I think your issue might be (a) flexible early tech (I mean do you choose a solid inf or support strat and stick to it?) (b) resource denial and (c ) commander.

Getting these three plates spinning nicely for a sov is the win button. Deny Ost fuel and (esp) munis and he's more fucked than a working girl on Navy Day. To do that you can use good support doctrine with scripts or M3 with scripts into a rapid SU85 or if you are really doing well T34 for the overwhelm.

So as I said in the other thread its about the map rotation too, which currently sucks donkey balls in 1 v 1 (maps too big or campy or both).

I think we have to be carefull, if we play not our "main" faction.
I am pretty sure you have two seperate MMRankings for them.

So If you played a lot Soviets, you get generally better at the game, you see your German opponents Strategys and can use them, you know what good against Soviets. Therefore you will easylie win most of your Games as Germans.
Same for me as a mostly German Player, I win most of the Games IF I play with Russians.

I don't feel like Pgren Spam is strong... Flamerscoutcar/Snipercar/Sniper or Maxims are all pretty good against Pgrens. Also Mg42 is pretty weak against the same thing: Snipers, Scoutcars and Maxims (setting up infront of a MG43 with a Maxim still the biggest joke ). This leaves me mostly with Grenadiers, a pretty phatetic Scoutcar (*cough Guards) and the FlamerHT and Panzerschrecks which all cost ammo.

Speaking of T3, I think the T-34 is completely viable if you have "Conscript repair package" running.

Just ram tanks and get Conscripts to battle repair

I find with the conscript doct, all I do is end up spamming Cons and T-34s anyway so

except mass cons spam is not hard to beat late game, you ram a panther and send in cons to repair and then you see a strafing run or frag bombs or stuka dive bomb comes in a clean everything up.

Not to mention the fact that p4s are not that much fuel than a t34 so your number advantage with t34's is very short lived.

And before P4 arrive, half of the map is taken, half of Ostheer army is gone. I afraid a P4 can't solo 3 Cons and 2 T70

I was wrong, you're right, t70 is actually op...the t70 if is used by a good soviet player with a bit of lucky is unstoppable in pre-mid game(that like the ostwind lol).

I had the example versus sepharim, he killed all my grens with the t70 and i was forced to make an useless pak with mines for try to stop that but nope, and when p4 was ready was too late because t34s were everywhere.