Enough is enough, fix the volks

relic said in some of there streams that volks/okw rely on the schrecks. I guess the only thing, they will change is a global upgrade for schrecks etc. next year.

1) it is hard to counter Volks with light and medium vehicles coz the Horde have shrek's (even if u support it with infantry). whatching top players they omit any light or medium vehicals.
2) Each hit with shrek provides substantial veterancy.
3) Because of no armor of any type here is a tendency to rush for KT.
4) Adding to Horde P2 at 6 min resulting very interesting gameplay process.
5) Low reinforce allows to maintain Horde of 4-6 squads and float MP at 500-600 . Thats why we rarely see PAK43 from Wehrmacht and quiet often from OKW.
6) Teching design is awfull. Investing resources in TECH all other factions suffers disadvantages BUT OKW get Shwere panzer that can be placed everywhere and there is no units or their combinations untill late game to remove it.

1) Same! when i try to counter a pak43 with vehicle, i loose, i wonder why. Nerf pak 43!(or build HMG, maybe)
2) which is their only way to get veterancy at all vith limited AI, seems legit.
3) What are you talking about? 'O_O
4) Actually, yes, it does, looks like early stuart and 222 which noone complain about.
5) If you dont loose any models yes, otherwhise good luck floating MP when bleeding from 6 squads.
6) If by late game you mean "until i reach my ZIS in T2 or SU76 in T3" Well, yes, but usually by lategame people are looking for 25+minute where the whole tree is unlocked.

Kozo.

Ooh, yea I'm ok with buffing raketen in exchange for no schrecks on volks, I think we're all fine with that. Good suggestion Johnny.

A raketen that won't die at the first wind blow? And who actualy have an AT range and a decent damage? Hm. We won't see this too soon, I can assure you. At least, not in the same time volks will lose the shreck upgrade. You will be free to enjoy your cheese for a good while, bro.

Says the guy with a genuine Swastika on his playercard.

Thank you for pointing this out. It has now been rendered invisible.

Making a tank Hunter separate squad is a good solution, but putting above it a munitions cost seems a bit stupid. "I'll buy this tank Hunter squad, and then I'll buy the thing that makes it a tank Hunter squad". No, thanks.

For volks, I don't want a MP44 package, this is like for upgrade. It's much better to give at least 2 options and make the player choose. For example:
- 1 package would be the SMG's, with a buff to recc acc, but losing the self healing, smoke grenade, no AT
- 1 light AT package, with some sort of AT rifle similar to the guards one, opening the option to planting tellers and a recc acc penalty

shrecks are fine, nobody credible is complaining about shrecks. They are 90 muni and they can be dropped.

If you think okw blobs late game are a problem then it's a l2p issue it's not broken.

Enough is enough with these posts FailFish

Buff Volk AI? Check
Resources at 100%? Check
Panzershrek stays the same? Check

It must just be a l2p issue.

MingLee

Making a tank Hunter separate squad is a good solution

Indeed it is, with 4 models, 2 shrecks and costing just mp (somewhat like the tank buster squad from panzer elite back in COH1). Make them cost somewhere around 360-380 mp, have good accuracy and reinforcement cost acordingly. Buildable from med truck. That would be an acceptable solution. But then raketen needs some kind of buff (at least health increase if not range also) and volks some kind of AI upgrade. Why not give them G43s, 2 of them, specialised in long range combat, to keep their unit profile too.

Mmmmh make a Tank hunter squad! ok! Wait, raketen will be useless... lets buff raketen then to be on-par with other faction. Hey! this looks very similar to Osteer lineup! Better play Ost then...

I know i simplify a bit too much, but the taste of OKW was to rely on multible weak ATgunz/infantery.

Kozo.

People just dont want to deal with factions strong side. All factions strength could be cheezy one but It is there none the less. USF has deadly blobs and can heal faster than anyone, Ostheer has strong late game, etc...

I mostly play USF and OKW the reason I have to tell what factions I'm playing with is because community has divided in two (Axis vs Allies) since CoH 1.

People are more protective about their favorite faction because there is two side in this game but with 5 factions!!! Faction balance cant be achived, If there are no mirror-match in a strategy game.

All this "You have this! I have that!" talk is happening because same factions dont compete with eachother. Maybe only than people could become more openly discuss about their favorite faction.

It is all Relic's fault for hiding behind "authenticity" side of WW2. Well Its suppose to be a strategy game, not war simulation!

I dont need a reason to belive 2 Soviets fighting with each other. I only care about strategy & tactical side.

Panzerschreck damage 120
bazooka 80
PIAT 120
ptrs 40, (vehicle)

the problem is put AT-weapon in main-line infantry
is same with the western allies main-line infantry that equip with 1 BAR + 1 Bazooka, or 1 Bren + 1 PIAT, can deal with Infantry and Vehicle

while the soviet is crying in corner

Enough is enough...
How dare you damage my light tanks with a 90MU single panzerschreck... I want to counter Anti-Tank infantry with my tanks without tanking any damage...

Thankfully no one complain about the double BARs, M1919s, Bazookas and PIATs...

Indeed it is, with 4 models, 2 shrecks and costing just mp (somewhat like the tank buster squad from panzer elite back in COH1). Make them cost somewhere around 360-380 mp, have good accuracy and reinforcement cost acordingly. Buildable from med truck. That would be an acceptable solution. But then raketen needs some kind of buff (at least health increase if not range also) and volks some kind of AI upgrade. Why not give them G43s, 2 of them, specialised in long range combat, to keep their unit profile too.

Seems fine to me, now if only Relic actually read these forums. Kappa

I don't get how people still have problems to deal with schreck blobs. You have enough tools to deal with okw blobbing, demos; mines, HMGs, Calliopes, Kattyusha, Crocs, Priests, better blobs with allied vetted infantry, fast crushing tanks... Really what is the problem? Don't forget that people sacrifice map control with blobbing, another advantage you can exploit.

I'd personally like to see that Schrecks are moved to a new dedicated tank hunter unit in t2 or t3, volks get an AI upgrade instead. But that's just me & that has nothing to do with the fact that its easy to deal with volks blobs.

I don't get how people still have problems to deal with schreck blobs. You have enough tools to deal with okw blobbing, demos; mines, HMGs, Calliopes, Kattyusha, Crocs, Priests, better blobs with allied vetted infantry, fast crushing tanks... Really what is the problem? Don't forget that people sacrifice map control with blobbing, another advantage you can exploit.

I'd personally like to see that Schrecks are moved to a new dedicated tank hunter unit in t2 or t3, volks get an AI upgrade instead. But that's just me & that has nothing to do with the fact that its easy to deal with volks blobs.

Oh really, sacrifice map control on crossing ? in TruaPon ? Kharkov ? Minsk ?
Better blobs with soviet ?
Maybe not all people are smart and dont use pio in there blobs to find demo or mines, but you need to know it, maybe its happen in you games MVGame.
When you have power to fix OKW blobs will be time for OKW vehicles, vehicles + shrek blob .
Fast crushing tanks Fast crushies tanks from merica ? or maybe soviets ?

I don't get how people still have problems to deal with schreck blobs. You have enough tools to deal with okw blobbing, demos; mines, HMGs, Calliopes, Kattyusha, Crocs, Priests, better blobs with allied vetted infantry, fast crushing tanks... Really what is the problem? Don't forget that people sacrifice map control with blobbing, another advantage you can exploit.

I'd personally like to see that Schrecks are moved to a new dedicated tank hunter unit in t2 or t3, volks get an AI upgrade instead. But that's just me & that has nothing to do with the fact that its easy to deal with volks blobs.

Mmm, handling Volk blobs seems simple on paper but it's not so easy as "Lay mine here, place HMG here, shoot Katyusha here", if it was I wouldn't make a thread whining like a baby. See, I'm a very prideful person, last thing I want to do is spend my whole day (Which I could be spending choking the chicken) on .org flapping my gums to a crowd that is 60% Kappa 40% MVGame and all PJSalt . Most threads made here are bombarded with garbage "L2p" etc. yet I still decided to try and get people to understand that there is an inherent anti-fun property in the current game. I'm not going for complete balance here, I just know that there are a lot of people not having fun because of this specific issue.

In hindsight I honestly don't know why I even bothered, it could be a huge game breaking issue and people would still try and keep it around so they could abuse it. It's happened many times in the past with many things that were obviously overpowered/anti-fun/broken but time and time again threads are made and the people abusing it sink said threads to the bottom.

A good portion of the problems with this game actually stem from the information the devs obtain and the horrible sources they obtain them from. It's no wonder they don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to balancing.

The game needs to be balanced in a way that it benefits the majority, currently that is not the case, and it's all of your fault it is the way it is.

Shame...

Edit: Just want to make it clear I'm not bashing you AchtAchter, just making a general observation.

Considering statistic of W/L, only OKW fanbois will talk that their faction is fine. Volks blobs only a half of the problem. Cheap tech, cheap lmg34, kubel rush at first minute, fast light viechile rushes, even after increasing cost on some tanks it seems it is too easy to role them on the battlefield etc. Still OKW has 5 vet, of course it's OKW and it must be unique, but guys let's be honest, now it's too much. OKW nowadays, is far more powerful then 4 other factions.

Mmm, handling Volk blobs seems simple on paper but it's not so easy as "Lay mine here, place HMG here, shoot Katyusha here", if it was I wouldn't make a thread whining like a baby. See, I'm a very prideful person, last thing I want to do is spend my whole day (Which I could be spending choking the chicken) on .org flapping my gums to a crowd that is 60% Kappa 40% MVGame and all PJSalt . Most threads made here are bombarded with garbage "L2p" etc. yet I still decided to try and get people to understand that there is an inherent anti-fun property in the current game. I'm not going for complete balance here, I just know that there are a lot of people not having fun because of this specific issue.

In hindsight I honestly don't know why I even bothered, it could be a huge game breaking issue and people would still try and keep it around so they could abuse it. It's happened many times in the past with many things that were obviously overpowered/anti-fun/broken but time and time again threads are made and the people abusing it sink said threads to the bottom.

A good portion of the problems with this game actually stem from the information the devs obtain and the horrible sources they obtain them from. It's no wonder they don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to balancing.

The game needs to be balanced in a way that it benefits the majority, currently that is not the case, and it's all of your fault it is the way it is.

Shame...

Edit: Just want to make it clear I'm not bashing you AchtAchter, just making a general observation.

You say you are here to make people understand. Ok, but are you willing to understand the solutions which people provided in countless posts about blobing or other strategies? So yes! When people open post just to whine they should lower their expectations for "making people understand"

There are lots of things to deal with problems in here. Yes Its hard game to do all. Especially when your opponent is good but isnt that all there is in the end? The skill.

My APM is not close to beat every problem my opponent throws but I dont want the game become easy. Couse I enjoy watching people play this game high level and sometimes knowing doing hard stuff, makes me more happy.

I'm sure If you can try more usual ways to counter the shek blob you can beat that too.

Oh really, sacrifice map control on crossing ? in TruaPon ? Kharkov ? Minsk ?
Better blobs with soviet ?
Maybe not all people are smart and dont use pio in there blobs to find demo or mines, but you need to know it, maybe its happen in you games MVGame.
When you have power to fix OKW blobs will be time for OKW vehicles, vehicles + shrek blob .
Fast crushing tanks Fast crushies tanks from merica ? or maybe soviets ?

You know that I veto crossing & trois as OKW? Small map, no flanking possibilities means you will constantly run into HMGS and artillery will cause wipes. I face maxim spam 4/5 times as okw (2vs2+) against sov, simply because most okw players blob schrecks and its extremly effective to spam maxim in order to stop OKW blobs. I don't blob so, I don't have problems with maxim spam, but its effective against blobs, especially combined with Kattyushas.

Believe me when I say you can smoke a schreck blob with a Sherman and just drive in and crush the blob or force it to retreat.

Show Spoiler

I honestly think that balance problems only occure when you reach a certain skill level and before reaching that certain skill level, better tactics, micro, strategies and coordination will always prevail over balance issues. Brad does a much better job at balancing than relic did in the past. Just look what we get now compared to the past:

-Preview mods
-Response in the forums
-USF became actually viable in every game mode
-Soviet teching fixed
-OKW became competitive
-Brits actually stoppable in late game

Thats why I find your words pretty insulting and completely misplaced.

You are complaining here about small details, missing the whole picture. Schreck blobs were a problem when Volks got insane rec accuracy bonuses in the past. Now they are not a problem any longer, they are just ugly to watch, hence I also support to remove them, but if you lose because of them, its absolutely your fault.