50. Cal and Vickers vs OKW

Hey,

I've played a large amount of 2v2's lately with Otto & Empire as allies and we find that the MG's of the allied forces (specially UKF Vickers and 50. Cal USF) isn't cutting it. Is there nothing like AOE suppression? What's the point of having an MG (even with spotters) that does not pin squads even if the MG starts firing when the blobs of doom enter the cone of fire?

Don't get me wrong, this aint no 'NERF OKW BUF ALLIES' topic, I just want to see how you guys feel about this. Should the Vickers and 50. Cal suppress faster to discourage blob-play?

Actually, all mg, not only allies mg alone, cannot suppress more than two enemy squads before getting killed if they use normal formation.

Your best bet would be set up mg waiting enemy at corner, because troop path-finding will bunching up there and get suppressed at same time.

In late game, terrain deformation generated tons of yellow cover. MG no longer works, so you have to rely on explosive weapon, which does not affected by accuracy.

I keep getting 2-3 Volks, all in the firing cone, walking up to the Vickers and tossing that flamenade before the pin sets in. Reminds me of early times with conscripts. So yes, they should.

Its always bothered me immensely that the Vickers HMG does not perform nearly as well as the HMG 42 despite it being more expensive.

The upfront dps of the Vickers is slightly higher than MG42 but it suppression rate is much lower (could someone provide the hard numbers?). Given that the desired task of the HMG is suppression, the Vickers really does seem lack luster as its fails at the role of stopping main line infantry from advancing (before being pushed off that is).

Its rather laughable that a Volks squad can advance through its cone of fire and still get a incendiary grenade out with minimal effort or concern for losses. And lets not get started on the effectiveness of rifle grenades on setups...

The vet 1 range boost in a garrison is neat but requires a building to take effect and pales in comparison to the MG42's magic bullets ability which will utterly shred infantry and light vehicles.

It wouldn't be a huge problem if the Vickers were supposed to be inferior to the MG42 but then its relative performance should be reflected in its cost.

I dont play US so I can't comment on the .50cal.

Just spam them, it will work out, had some insanely harsh games against my clanmate GBPirate. In our training games he went for MG (Maxim) spam and it will give you some damn hard times if micro'ed well.

Its always bothered me immensely that the Vickers HMG does not perform nearly as well as the HMG 42 despite it being more expensive.

?

The Vickers does more damage, especially vs buildings. A 1v1 on equal footing between a vickers and a MG42 will be won by a Vickers. if you want to talk about a mg suppression platform that is lackluster, talk about the mg34.

Suppression is fine in my opinion. I stole a few vickers vs Brits as Ostheer and they could hold flanks against multiple tommie squads perfectly fine. The problem lies with OKW hording up infantry and some units not running in the line of fire and thus not getting suppression. The same goes for the MG42, seen it happen many many times, it goes both ways. On top of that, USF can smoke out any mg42 with their riflemen.

The factor that adds greatly to this is the veterancy levels of OKW infantry and the 'Volksgrenadiers receive 10% less suppression' bulletins. If you stack 3 of them, I have tried this myself, you won't be able to be suppressed by a long shot, not even by a captured mg42.

I've had vickers supress a squad and then it crawled behind green cover and lost the supressed status while the vickers was firing on the squad the whole time. I have no idea what's wrong with that hmg

I've had vickers supress a squad and then it crawled behind green cover and lost the supressed status while the vickers was firing on the squad the whole time. I have no idea what's wrong with that hmg

Probably the bullets hit the green cover and not providing it's suppression

The USF .50 suppresses nice and fast, but has abysmal aim and reload times. So a unit that runs into one side of the arc basically gets insta-suppressed, while another unit in the other side of the arc just runs up and kills it. Very frustrating. The Vickers is garbage. The amount of times I've had Volks just run straight up through its arc and throw wunderflammengranate at it is ridiculous.

Probably the bullets hit the green cover and not providing it's suppression

that's not how suppression work.

the problem with vicker is that it can't suppress well. The vicker machine deal ~30% less suppression than the mg42.

the mg34 is what happen when a mg can't kill.

the vicker is what happen when a mg can't suppress.

So basically 'everyone' agrees that they could you a slight buff? Or am I wrong?

Vickers - high dps, strong garrison bonuses, medium suppression, slow pack up
Mg42 - high suppression, good damage, slow pack up
Mg34 - medium suppression, low damage, low cost, slow pack up
Maxim - high suppression, no aoe, small arc, fast pack up
50cal - high suppression, good damage, medium arc, fast pack up

Each machinegun plays differently. I find the Vickers more than suitable with dealing with okw, thanks to their high kill potential

Just spam them, it will work out, had some insanely harsh games against my clanmate GBPirate. In our training games he went for MG (Maxim) spam and it will give you some damn hard times if micro'ed well.

And then get obliterated by single Wurfrahmen or Peewerfer.
No, thanks. I've already experienced this helluva lot of times.

Vickers - high dps, strong garrison bonuses, medium suppression, slow pack up
Mg42 - high suppression, good damage, slow pack up
Mg34 - medium suppression, low damage, low cost, slow pack up
Maxim - high suppression, no aoe, small arc, fast pack up
50cal - high suppression, good damage, medium arc, fast pack up

Each machinegun plays differently. I find the Vickers more than suitable with dealing with okw, thanks to their high kill potential

You have completely forgot about DShKa existence. That makes me sad.

Dshka is high damage high suppression small arc fast setup.

Dshka is high damage high suppression small arc fast setup.

Setup isn't that fast for the arc it provides(well, it is compared to 34 for example), Dshk is actually harder to use then maxim, but performs better in garrisons due to its damage.

So basically 'everyone' agrees that they could you a slight buff? Or am I wrong?

Don't know about Vickers but HMG.50 is on the right spot vs infantry. Don't forget to use its vet1 ability to reposition after suppressing a blob.

This and from my point of view, .50 isn't a defensive HMG but offensive one, really easy to use with a pair (or more) of rifles. A-move and micro your RM when you fight, the HMG set up really quick, suppress fast and you reposition faster when needed.

So basically 'everyone' agrees that they could you a slight buff? Or am I wrong?

You are slightly wrong. As it is, veckers in buildings means pretty much GG for OKW. And for an unprepared OST as well.

?

The Vickers does more damage, especially vs buildings. A 1v1 on equal footing between a vickers and a MG42 will be won by a Vickers. if you want to talk about a mg suppression platform that is lackluster, talk about the mg34.

Suppression is fine in my opinion. I stole a few vickers vs Brits as Ostheer and they could hold flanks against multiple tommie squads perfectly fine. The problem lies with OKW hording up infantry and some units not running in the line of fire and thus not getting suppression. The same goes for the MG42, seen it happen many many times, it goes both ways. On top of that, USF can smoke out any mg42 with their riflemen.

The Vickers will win against an MG42 if both are in green cover or a building but will loose in no cover as the 42 will suppress the vickers quicker. If I'm not mistaken the yellow cover scenario is faily even and RNG dependant (whoever manages to get the first gunner kill).

A vickers will work well against infantry sections as they don't have direct access to tools for taking on HMG's and completly suck out of cover. OKW hordes and grens on the other hand...

In contrast if you grab and MG42, it does a much better job at suppressing the OKW hordes which is what UKF really need rather than slightly better dps.

A vetted Vickers in a building is solid gold but is quickly countered by indirect spam (which is given in team games).

So the question remains, does the Vickers actually perform at the level of its cost, in comparison to the HMG42?

Meanwhile MGs gets negated by USF blob with captain his "On me" abbility

.50 isn't much of an area denial tool. I think it's the MG that benefits the most from vet 1 sprint because it sets up SO fast, and you gotta use all of the sweet early game vision that USF has access to from M20, Stuart, Pathfinders or just plain ol' infantry to get advantageous engagements with it.

Don't forget you get fighting pits too, and the quad-mount M17 is a God-send for USF. Especially since it gets a vehicle crew.