Ostheer problems

Here's muh problem with teh new(not really) meta in 1 vs 1. Besides the fact the Relic caters ONLY to balance in 1 vs 1, this new update has really screwed stuff up, and I think enough time has passed to address this, all you "patient" individuals who advocated to wait till we got "all the information" can probably agree somewhat. So.

The USF Meta
Early game
-Riflemen spam(4-6 squads)
-pretty much it
Midgame
-either Stuart rush or M20/AA truck rush.
-pretty much it
Late game
-You get rekt. Unless you rekt the opponent in the early to mid game.

In conclusion, Let's just all get Heavy Cavalry doctrine 4 free m8.

The OKW Meta
Early game
-Kubel, volks, volks, sturm truck.(More room for variability.)
Mid game
-Luchs rush(cancer)
-AA truck, moar volks.
Late game
-Rek everybody with your armour and vet blobs. Especially if you got sturmtiger or Panzer fusiliers.

In conclusion, let's increase economy to 150%, so it can just be an all out spam blob fail win slug fest.

The Brit Meta
Early game
-mebbe a bren, mebbe some sections, mebbe some mgs.
Mid game
-Either full turtle mode(mortars and bofors), or really anything else. Brit mid game is pretty fluid.
Late game
-Hopefully have enough full to get armour, watch your units slowly crumble to the veterancy of the blobs and King tiger and sturm tiger and Panther and heavy artillery and mines and flak base and infinite laulz.

Jk Jk, get your crocodile and actually push the enemy back. Wait, that hasn't changed has it?
*gets call from Relic balance team*, nvm, bruh. nvm.

The Ostheer Meta
Early game
-can be anything really. good configurations.
Mid game
-Emphasis on your weapon teams, yes, your Mgs, Paks, and mortars. God knows you don't have enough fuel yet to get medium armour.
Late game
-If you dominated early-mid game, you earn yourself a tiger, that is if you enjoy waiting 30 minutes for 13 cp.
-You spam Stugs and get rekt, because Ostheer fuel economy worse then Zimbabwe.

The Soviet Meta
Early mid and late game
-Clown cars, mines, and spam, oh my. seriously, Soviet is so forgiving in hands of a noob, and godly in hands of pro's. Unless you're playing on the bottom of Semoskiy, then you just control that one house and win m8.

If you can't feel the passion surging through your veins, you do not deserve the Christmas gift Lelic has bestowed. Feels more like a stocking of coal to me however, we must've been real bad children.

How does one spam 6 rifleman and rush a stuart?

Sounds like l2p, friend.

How does one spam 6 rifleman and rush a stuart?

Sounds like l2p, friend.

+1
After the 4th you are really pushing it with the bleed.

I'll add that since he plays 1v1...

Clowncar meta?
Not a single sniper was mention on this thread for either OH or brits?

How does one spam 6 rifleman and rush a stuart?

Sounds like l2p, friend.

You just do, man.
you get that captain and you rush that stuart man.

+1
After the 4th you are really pushing it with the bleed.

I'll add that since he plays 1v1...

Clowncar meta?
Not a single sniper was mention on this thread for either OH or brits?

Sorry for the Clown cars, they probably shouldn't be there, I just played a game on semoskiy and this guy was burning out all my weapons teams with clown cars early game, it was just in my head. To address the snipers, They only have any effect on larger and open maps. urban maps with chokepoints and such don't work.

Sorry for the Clown cars, they probably shouldn't be there, I just played a game on semoskiy and this guy was burning out all my weapons teams with clown cars early game, it was just in my head. To address the snipers, They only have any effect on larger and open maps. urban maps with chokepoints and such don't work.

Sturzdorf is 100% veto. Can't remember if one the new maps (which i veto 100% on 2v2) is also a 1v1. Sniper on Semoisky work. What other urban map is on rotation?

Allies are in poor place in 1vs1, I dont even bother play 1vs1 with the new patch. Kubel + double sturms seals the game from the getgo.

More like USF T3 meta being the balance issue here. OST is in a perfect spot.


USF T3 Rush meta is the biggest BS ever evolved since 2006.



Look at the stuart, Oh.

My issues with ostheer are:

Brummbar being too expensive and bad.

G43s being very weak, and worthless on stormtroopers and pgrens

222 being so cheap, paper thin, and does almost no damage to infantry

Stormtroopers having to pay 100 munitions for pgren stgs and having inferior veterancy than panzergrenadiers.
Stormtroopers spawning with grenadier kar98s instead of Ober kar98s.
Fix all of this and make them cost 370-380 mp.

Uselessness of medkits for ost infantry.

Underperformance of Bundle grenades.

Please address these issues. PLEASE

Ostheer are in a pretty good place right now save a few minor issues. They do have a few units which could use some attention (ostwind, brumbarr) but for the most part their core lineup is solid, they have good unit synergy and they don't have any obvious weaknesses at any part of the game.

However they lack a reliable squad-wiping unit, which makes them feel a bit flaccid as the game goes on. Thus the problem is more the design of other factions and the current meta with its emphasis on quick squad wipes. Ostheer feels weak because they can't wipe squads the way the enemy occasionally wipes theirs. So I think the solution is not to give Ostheer better squad wiping abilities but rather address the issue of excessive squad wiping in the current meta. That of course is much easier said than done.

A second point is they don't have many interesting doctrines. Most Ostheer doctrines just add a bit to what's already there rather than provide some flexibility to surprise the opponent or counter their strategy.

Brummbar being too expensive and bad.

Brummbar is just expensive not bad.

G43s being very weak, and worthless on stormtroopers and pgrens

G43s are good. Just because they don't have same long range damage output as lmg dosen't make them bad. It increses damage on all ranges especially mid/close. They are cheaper too and give recon ability. I allways start getting thease if I have them available. Also storms can upgrade both the g43 and schrek.

222 being so cheap, paper thin, and does almost no damage to infantry

222 is a light vehicle counter (m3, m20, bren carrier). It's cheap only 210/15 and does nice damage to inf in the open do not waste time shooting units in garissions or heavy cover. I think it's very efficient.

Stormtroopers having to pay 100 munitions for pgren stgs and having inferior veterancy than panzergrenadiers.
Stormtroopers spawning with grenadier kar98s instead of Ober kar98s.
Fix all of this and make them cost 370-380 mp.

Take note that they have same reinforce costs as grenadiers. I think they are fine.

Uselessness of medkits for ost infantry.

Agreed imo they should be usable within the squad and heal to full hp.

Underperformance of Bundle grenades.

????

G43s are good.

No, they are not.

222 is a light vehicle counter (m3, m20, bren carrier). It's cheap only 210/15 and does nice damage to inf in the open do not waste time shootin units in garissions or heavy cover. I think it's very efficient.

Yep, it's so good that I stopped 2 months ago building it even if there are snipers on the field. It simply makes you spend fuel for nothing and it can't kill anything, even it's traditional pray. Yesterday I broke my good habit and I built one. I was chasing 1 soviet sniper squad half of a map and killed just one model. The other model made it to base to safety among PTRS infantry. GG.

????

What, aren't you aware that the USF frag grenade is better?!

You heard it here first guys, being bad is a good enough reason to claim things are crap (when they are not - its because you suck) yet being good means nothing

You heard it here first guys, being bad is a good enough reason to claim things are crap (when they are not - its because you suck) yet being good means nothing

Hey, do you like T34s? Do you think they are crap?

You heard it here first guys, being bad is a good enough reason to claim things are crap (when they are not - its because you suck) yet being good means nothing

He is better than youthough.

For reference, assbag > Both you two. I never mentioned my view in the thread. Also that guy has 0 ranks in top 100, where as all mine bar one are. If you are suggesting he is better than me because plays 1's, then that is ofcourse valid. However, that only further reinforces my point about assbag #shotyourselvesinthefoot

I'm sorry but nobody will try to respond to your tread in a intelligent way, you just whine all along and you claim ALLIES OP, don't create a tread to post BS


PS: Stop saying 222 is bad, it is good, it's not an no brainer unit, use it's range to kill, 2 222 can kill quads easily, and a single faust to an t70 and the 222 can kill it easily, if you start by not loosing it, you can feels the good in this machine

1) I agree completely with easierwithaturret that the underlying problem is Relic's squad-wipey design. I don't play vCOH any more but it's probably the design change I like the least in COH2, even offmap arty wasn't as instantly lethal as a single OKW Stuka rocket.

2) To WTFisthis' point, I am admittedly a mediocre player, but I struggle intensely against the Stuart as Ostheer. Not entirely sure what to do about it since my PaK/MG position usually ends up getting flanked by riflespam if it's in a position to actually hit the Stuart (and if it's far enough back to be safe it's useless).

3) Perhaps one possible fix is nerfing riflemen's accuracy on the move? Their DPS is fine for cost and I wouldn't mind them being a little less squishy, but often I've had as many gren or volks squads as opposing rifles, my guys sitting in cover, while the rifles do tons of damage as they advance. Then I have to retreat. I get that they're supposed to be mobile flanking glass cannon-ish infantry, but I think their current profile cuts against some of the main design ideas of the game (namely that units sitting behind cover are supposed to be able to fend off units coming at them across open ground).

I'm sorry but nobody will try to respond to your tread in a intelligent way, you just whine all along and you claim ALLIES OP, don't create a tread to post BS


PS: Stop saying 222 is bad, it is good, it's not an no brainer unit, use it's range to kill, 2 222 can kill quads easily, and a single faust to an t70 and the 222 can kill it easily, if you start by not loosing it, you can feels the good in this machine

If you came out of my rant thinking I was crying about the allies..... then you kinda dropped the ball there partner. I pointed out the Meta as I perceived it playing 1 vs 1, I do appreciate you calling everything I say BS without a shred of support. I think I just got my daily dose of Iron from that post

The 222 is fine. People want it to be like the PE armoured car in vCoH but they ignore the difference between the two. In vCoH it was a high-risk unit which needed to be powerful to justify the tech you had to forego to build it early. In CoH2 it's much safer to get and doesn't have much impact on your teching, so it doesn't make sense for it to have that same shock factor. The only aspect of it which maybe needs a look at is its ability to kill snipers.