Fragmentation Bombs

Has anyone else noticed that this doctrinal ability is very weak/situational for its cost?

It lands fairly quickly (I feel the light artillery barrage takes longer), but it usually brings most squads down to maybe half health, instead of killing a few. Any other form of artillery is more efficient than spending 180 muns on a 5cp ability (panzerwerfers are free barrages, after all).

I think they should maybe swap the prices with Stuka Dive Bomber, which deals excellent damage all around: 160mun for fragmentation barrage, 180muns (or 200) for Stuka Dive Bomb.

Maybe im not using it right: Drop it on huge blob of supressed soviet nifantry. No kills/heavy damage unless they were severely wounded.

Doesn't it also lightly damage and stun tanks? Ah no, 30 penetration isn't enough vs. medium+ tanks and I can't find any mention of the stunning mechanic on coh2stats...

I think this is its stat page:
http://coh-moderncombat.com/CoH2Stats/Axis/Weapons/stuka_ab23_fragmentation_bomb_mp.html
(don't be fooled by the "smoke bomb" title)

50-80 damage means that it can one shot infantry, but normally won't do so. Of course the whole think seems to consist of several of those explosions so infantry hit by multiple of them will die.
It is kinda unique in that it bursts like an mg would.
Its AoE radius is pretty good compared to most other explosive weapons and grenades.

So overall, it will probably leave back more survivors than a railway artillery strike but it will also arrive much faster and will hit more consistently (many small hits vs. 3 huge hits). In the end, if it catches a blob some squads may survive but they surely are in no fighting condition and will bleed a lot of MP.

I think it probably isn't such a bad ability but as Ostheer you are too often munitions starved so you won't be able to use it often.

Railway arty... lol.. so massive..love it

Doesn't it also lightly damage and stun tanks? Ah no, 30 penetration isn't enough vs. medium+ tanks and I can't find any mention of the stunning mechanic on coh2stats...

I think this is its stat page:
http://coh-moderncombat.com/CoH2Stats/Axis/Weapons/stuka_ab23_fragmentation_bomb_mp.html
(don't be fooled by the "smoke bomb" title)

50-80 damage means that it can one shot infantry, but normally won't do so. Of course the whole think seems to consist of several of those explosions so infantry hit by multiple of them will die.
It is kinda unique in that it bursts like an mg would.
Its AoE radius is pretty good compared to most other explosive weapons and grenades.

So overall, it will probably leave back more survivors than a railway artillery strike but it will also arrive much faster and will hit more consistently (many small hits vs. 3 huge hits). In the end, if it catches a blob some squads may survive but they surely are in no fighting condition and will bleed a lot of MP.

I think it probably isn't such a bad ability but as Ostheer you are too often munitions starved so you won't be able to use it often.

I agree that it deals decent enough damage to warrant a retreat, but by the time it arrives, at 5CP's, it dwarves its usefulness in any game type (1v1 or 2v2). A strafing run (which needs revision) is only 3CP's, and 33% cheaper. Not only that, its the only explosive ability with a range of damage, all the other ones I found were static damage (80-80, 200-200, etc) It is this inconsistency that got me thinking...

BTW, what does the APDS categories mean under vs supressed targets and pinned targets?

BTW, what does the APDS categories mean under vs supressed targets and pinned targets?

Accuracy, Penetration, Damage, Suppression. Attacks against suppressed and pinned targets have other modifiers and might for example only have half accuracy (0.5) vs. a suppressed target.

Accuracy, Penetration, Damage, Suppression. Attacks against suppressed and pinned targets have other modifiers and might for example only have half accuracy (0.5) vs. a suppressed target.

I thought suppressed targets had a bonus against accuracy, but pinned targets became even easier to hit. If I'm reading right, pinned targets are insanely hard to hit? (.25 acc)

It's harder to hit suppressed/pinned targets but that effect wears off after a while.

Fragmentation Bombs seem to have a larger AoE - I think it's supposed to be good for coverage, but not that good for actually outright killing (though I did take out 5 vet 2 conscript squads who were grouped around an HQ once)

I thinkt the major problem with this ability is the fact I actually can not aim it effectively.

The bombs drop in a rectangular formation (like a CoH1 bombing run), however you get given a circle off-map target strike. This is wrong and should be changed in my opinion.

Secondly, you can not influence the direction of the plane, but it will always come from your base. This means bombs will only ever drop up-down the field with reference to your base and never across the field.

Both these factors contribute together to really make it harder for you to hit that sweet spot when dropping the fragmentation bombs.

I thinkt the major problem with this ability is the fact I actually can not aim it effectively.

The bombs drop in a rectangular formation (like a CoH1 bombing run), however you get given a circle off-map target strike. This is wrong and should be changed in my opinion.

Secondly, you can not influence the direction of the plan,but it will always come from your base. This means bombs will only every drop up-down the field with reference to your base.

Both this factors contribute together to really allow you to hit that sweet spot when dropping the fragmentation bombs.

+1

I thinkt the major problem with this ability is the fact I actually can not aim it effectively.

The bombs drop in a rectangular formation (like a CoH1 bombing run), however you get given a circle off-map target strike. This is wrong and should be changed in my opinion.

Secondly, you can not influence the direction of the plane, but it will always come from your base. This means bombs will only ever drop up-down the field with reference to your base and never across the field.

Both these factors contribute together to really make it harder for you to hit that sweet spot when dropping the fragmentation bombs.

I just noticed that in a game (the rectangular thing).

/storytime!
Some may recall that vCoH's strafing run ability was originally like this: a circular radius instead of a rectangular aiming point. Of course, after the strafe was patched, it became über (and it was not until 2.602 that it became what we know now).

I think given the relative strength of the Commanders options that have Frag bombs, it is in a good place. My primary use is for setupteams, which otherwise, due to lack of comprehensive indirect fire options, I habe difficulty decrewing or atleast forcing off.

problem with this and all other bombing runs are flares, because they are dropped like 2 seconds before plane enters the field, add also how slow bombers are and you know why these abilities are usually useless, you can so fucking easy avoid them....

problem with this and all other bombing runs are flares, because they are dropped like 2 seconds before plane enters the field, add also how slow bombers are and you know why these abilities are usually useless, you can so fucking easy avoid them....

How is that different from CoH 1? Everyone was fine with it in CoH 1...

How is that different from CoH 1? Everyone was fine with it in CoH 1...

Barton is right, the problem is nuanced but there. In CoH1 you can choose where the plane comes from. Obviously you would always choose to have it come from the side of the map closest to the target to minimize travel time.

In this game since the plane seems to always come from your base, unless you're trying to hit something right outside your base there is something like a 3-5 second window where the plane is visible on the map flying towards the target AFTER the 2 second flares window.

Also, the planes in CoH1 were way faster in general.

EDIT: Clarification.

Targeting rectangle instead of a circle would really be preferable. At least for air attacks that only do a single pass. Strafing runs are ok with a circle I think.

Anything that circles an area is perfectly fine with a circle. Directional attacks do need an aiming rectangle.

As far as plane speed being slower: that's fine. I really liked a game where my enemy bought an AA solution to bring down my recon runs, it was a way to deny me that call in. I would, however, check into the range of such AA units.

As a frequent user of Frag Bombs, I think they're incredibly potent. If you use them vs. vehicles, you're gonna have a bad time. If you want to quickly take out a set up team or entrenched troops, it' right up your alley. The call in time is insanely quick and it's an almost guaranteed squad kill. Ofcoure, it's better in defensive situations because it gets called in even quicker because the closer to your base the less time the plane has to travel.

My main gripe with it is that as a directional attack you can't actually AIM the thing. We had this in DoW2 and CoH1, why not here? Though it does tend to come from the same direction all the time - your base - so it's pretty predictable.

Regardless, I find the time from calling it in to it actually hitting to be a bit too fast to be fair. Then again, you'd probably avoid it with an instant retreat for non-set up teams, and it costs a hell load of munitions.

In 1vs1 I'd say they're quite balanced. In team games where the skill cap is generally lower and there's alot more going on the field, they may be a bit too potent.