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Miragefla's December Balance Mod Additions

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11 Dec 2015, 08:22 AM
#41
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819



Well, the Bren costs less fuel and arrives slightly sooner. I may look at the Wasp upgrade.

On the Kubel, what's wrong with it? The capture rate or the lack of fuel cost? Because the lack of fuel cost is now sort of compensated by OKW needing to pay fuel for their healing and repairs.

On the hotfix that came out today, I may move some of OKWs vehicles prices up. But I'll need more feedback on how OKW's side cost affects their timing of armour, etc.


The faster capping speed is very unnecessary as it is already fast and can get out really easily.
I'd take it out if I could.
12 Dec 2015, 04:38 AM
#42
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Changelog .14
12 Dec 2015, 06:46 AM
#43
avatar of Kpen97

Posts: 375

Changelog .14
Need to make volksgrenadiers have more varity istead of zook blobs.

obers are good anti infantry but too expensive. So I have an idea.

Have two upgrades for volks: upgrade one is an anti tank, allowing one panzersheck and anti tank nade that replaces the flame nade, upgrade two is more of a infantry focus which allows the all Volkgrenadier squad members to upgrade to mp40's and give them a new ability that cost munitions to boost damage output of mp40's and with a debuff when the ability runs out. for a short period, because mp40s aren't that strong.
12 Dec 2015, 15:37 PM
#44
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

My comments on some of you changes so far:

ver0.1
Starting Weapon Crews for HMGs, Mortars, Raketen and 57mm ATG
-Standardized to 1 from either 0.85 (raketen) or 1.25 (everything else).

If they are tougher they should cost more to reinforce maybe 75% instead of 50.



-Shocktroops from 12 to 8. 1 Population per model. 2 for Squad

Shock should have at least same pop with ober so it should be closer to 10 they are 6 men after all be able to stay in battle long time.

-Pioneer population from 4 to 6. 1 Population per mode, 2 for squad.

Pioneer have less utility then RE and Royal engineers so there are pop should be lower to 4 or 5.


Comet
-Rear armoured reduced from 180 to 120

This tanks is meant to be a flanker and operate inside territory does not need rear armor reduction.

251 Flame Half-Track

Needs more armor take too much damage from small arms fire. An m5 with 2 flamer C.E. does the same job allot better...

Brummbar
Need faster velocity projectile and lower time to aim same goes to Dozer.

Jagdpanzer IV
Needs better penetration SU-85 if far more cost efficient in mode...


Jagdtiger
If lower the rear armor remove stun...The vehicle can not react if it is flanked, due to stun lock.


Penal Battalion
Flamethrower Upgrade now adds 4 PPsh-41s to better mesh with the flamethrower. Stats are close to Shock Trooper PPsh-41s stats at short-range and less damage drop-off.

The idea that flamers are close range weapons is misconception the have the same DPS at all ranges so the optimal range to be use it max of 25 the flamer upgrade should not replace SVT that perform better at that range than PPsh...
12 Dec 2015, 15:44 PM
#45
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

ver0.125

Centaur
The modifier vs heavy cover need to reduced from 100% to match other units...

Pak 43
Remove minimum range...allow to be built in base sector this is not artillery piece and should not suffer this restrictions

Ostwind
Remove minimum range...

M-45 Anti-Tank Gun
-Crews can now cloak the gun with 25% reduced speed.
...
-Gains 100% increase to penetration when firing its first shot from camouflage with 25% increased accuracy.

Cloak speed reduction in all atg should affect gun only and not crew, because it creates problems, for instance replacing a killed gunner takes to long.

Bonus for firing from cloak to high better than RW that gain bonus at vet 3!!!
12 Dec 2015, 15:48 PM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Version .13 Update

250 Half-Track
consider allowing reinforcement similarly to other call-in...
12 Dec 2015, 15:51 PM
#47
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Out of interest, why do you choose to make the changes you do and how do you come to a conclusion about what works?

Obviously it's a work in progress but I'm curious as to the process behind it.
12 Dec 2015, 16:01 PM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Changelog .14
Combat Support Group
Remove ATG lower price to 650 or lower CP, the manpower it too much to save in late game..

KV-2
Remove damage penalty while changing modes, consider lowering price and CP (comes after IS-2 and ISU-152), change vet 3 bonus in siege mode, consider increasing limit 2 (suits industry) or removing completely...Maybe have Ostheer artillery piece weapon counter fire while in siege mode...

Combat Blitz
Make similar change to UKF "war speed ability", heavy tanks like Churchills and Comets should have similar treatment as tigers and panthers...

Flak Emplacement
Remove projectile it collide with world object to much reducing DPS considerably.

MG34 HMG Team
Lower reinforcement cost and XP value in line with other HMGs

Let me know if any of my comments need more explanations...hope you find the comments helpful.
12 Dec 2015, 16:40 PM
#49
avatar of Frost

Posts: 1024 | Subs: 1

Flame HT, penals would be too good. But rest looks fine
12 Dec 2015, 18:30 PM
#50
avatar of miragefla
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Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 15:51 PMSwift
Out of interest, why do you choose to make the changes you do and how do you come to a conclusion about what works?

Obviously it's a work in progress but I'm curious as to the process behind it.


Mainly I look at units that are rarely if ever used. After that, I start considering their role and if it overlaps with other units or not before making changes go through and how it affects other units in an army's core and its comparison to other units in other armies. After that, it's onto price tag and does the unit perform for that price, especially when you compare it to units that fulfill the same role and if they do it more effectively or not.

Once all that's done, onto testing.

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 16:40 PMFrost
Flame HT, penals would be too good. But rest looks fine


From testing so far, the Flame HT is strong, but I wouldn't say it's too good as you need the maneuver it to get all flamethrowers or target, it lacks a proper 360 degree turret like a Quad. Lack suppression, no AA capabilities, losses reinforce, and carrying ability. Furthermore its damage versus garrisons has been reduced to hopefully prevent instant gibbing.

Penals, if you are looking at damage, then yes they are good, but that's what I want the unit to be. A sort of high damage, but low-mediocre durability unit. Yes, it has six man, but they start with a target size of 1, only get 23% received accuracy at vet 3, cost 300 manpower and have no utility outside of bunker-busting/AI roles. Furthermore, they are locked into T1 where you trade versatility and scaling of support weapons for firepower against enemy infantry.

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 16:01 PMVipper
Changelog .14
Combat Support Group
Remove ATG lower price to 650 or lower CP, the manpower it too much to save in late game..

KV-2
Remove damage penalty while changing modes, consider lowering price and CP (comes after IS-2 and ISU-152), change vet 3 bonus in siege mode, consider increasing limit 2 (suits industry) or removing completely...Maybe have Ostheer artillery piece weapon counter fire while in siege mode...

Combat Blitz
Make similar change to UKF "war speed ability", heavy tanks like Churchills and Comets should have similar treatment as tigers and panthers...

Flak Emplacement
Remove projectile it collide with world object to much reducing DPS considerably.

MG34 HMG Team
Lower reinforcement cost and XP value in line with other HMGs

Let me know if any of my comments need more explanations...hope you find the comments helpful.


1. I think 700 with everything is fine, especially since the RNG has been removed and you know what you will get. You're getting two paratrooper squads and the ATG you might as well consider a bonus.
2. KV-2 has no received damage modifiers when setting up, only received accuracy. CP change will be the only thing I'll be considering at this moment.
3.Maybe.
4.Other changes to the flak emplacement are already under way to make it more viable. Simply changing its projectile is not enough.
5.MG-34 team cost will be changed. Not sure on vet given its improved damage output at range which needs more testing.
6. Also on team weapons. No on increasing cost as these models have some of the worst weapons in the game and are as easy to hit as regular troops.

13 Dec 2015, 12:14 PM
#51
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


1. I think 700 with everything is fine, especially since the RNG has been removed and you know what you will get. You're getting two paratrooper squads and the ATG you might as well consider a bonus.


This ability has some issues that make unattractive:
"Airdrop combat group" comes at CP 7 which more than double CP of most elite call in (almost 4 times in some cases), by that time a player probably has on the field as many infantry as he needs and even he just lost some squads and want to replace them he probably need 1 not 2 and ATG.

Further more since they already come with AT weapons the ATG is more of liability than a bonus since it can be used by enemy if the ability is used in the front-line or has to be crewed by the airborne with a higher cost.

In any case Coh2 offers a discount when someone buys units in bulk (ok free weapons can be considered a discount) but since the normal "airborne" come at CP 3 and cost 340 (680 for 2) this ability still is not very attractive.



6. Also on team weapons. No on increasing cost as these models have some of the worst weapons in the game and are as easy to hit as regular troops.


Yes but there are extremely cheap to reinforce a maxim or Dshk model is 15 mp to reinforce compare to a conscript with 20 (33% more cost)...

This change will promote support weapon spam since it will very cost efficient to reinforce such an army...


I have a series of other suggestion that you might want to consider and if you are interested I can post them here...
14 Dec 2015, 01:26 AM
#52
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2015, 12:14 PMVipper

I have a series of other suggestion that you might want to consider and if you are interested I can post them here...



.15 Changelog

aaa
14 Dec 2015, 02:49 AM
#53
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487

what are you doing it for. Next patch?
14 Dec 2015, 03:09 AM
#54
avatar of Svanh

Posts: 181

Just to clarify, did you change the 17 Pounder's pop cost from 20 to 12 or did you change the 17 Pounder Gun Pit pop cost from 14 to 12? The 17 Pounder Gun part of the squad has a pop cost of 6 itself.

Here are a few other things you might want to look into:

- Attack orders make the Churchill Croc use its flamethrower instead of its main gun. If you want to change this, you'll need to switch hardpoints 1 and 2, change the parent hardpoints on 3 and 4, and adjust the veterancy bonuses to refer to the changed hardpoints.

- Neither the standard Churchill or the Croc have the Prioritise Armour ability.

- The Infantry Section (IS) and Royal Engineer (RE) cover bonuses are a mess. Infantry Sections have a multiplier to cooldown and reload time when out of cover while REs receive bonuses when in cover but only for their SMG. This leads to some interesting behaviour with picked up weapons. The Boys Rifle is an exact copy of the PTRS but is only as good as the PTRS when in cover while the PIAT is far better on REs than ISs due to REs not receiving the out-of-cover penalty.

I'd suggest making reversing the IS' cover penalty to a bonus (fairly simple, just get rid of the required_not and use 1/<current_multiplier> as the new multiplier) while multiplying the PIAT, Bren, both IS Lee-Enfields and the Vickers K's cooldown and reload by the current multipliers.

Add the new bonus to the RE cover ability for all weapons that aren't the SMG and have them pick up the same Bren from weapon racks as the IS (The Vickers K is identical to the IS Bren anyway, so this shouldn't be too much of an issue). This would make it easier to adjust picked-up weapons against other factions and means that picked-up weapons perform just as well on ISs as they do on REs (Reducing the likelihood of RE blobs).

- The Tactical Support Regiment Recovery Engineers can't build. Adding the standard RE build options would mean they have a use outside of repair and recovery work.

- The 25 Pounder Base Howitzers will still have problems with your AOE change. The 25 Pounders have the same scatter with distance and max scatter as other heavy artillery (0.074, 18.5) but the other heavy artillery options have a larger AOE, can be built closer to their targets and do not require a grenade for a full barrage.

This causes the 25 Pounders to land every shell at the exact edge of the reticule (or outside it if the target is in FOW) past 250 range, meaning that they cannot hit anything you aimed at. When the smallest map in the game has its midpoint ~226 units from your base this is a major issue. Reducing max scatter to 12 would allow the 25 Pounders to hit a building you aimed at regardless of range without affecting its accuracy scaling at low ranges or making it useful for sniping units.

- Both Royal Engineers and Royal Recovery Engineers have a target size of 0.8 and receive a 0.6 received accuracy bonus with vet. Whether or not this is an issue is up to you.

Nice work with this mod, by the way. :D
14 Dec 2015, 09:44 AM
#55
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Universal Carrier

Consider increasing HP or armor and/or speed for MG upgrade to perform a bit better against kubels and 222.

Valentine

Consider further improvement of utility with Valentine being able to use base guns also to barrage.


Assault Officer
Allow a STG upgrade weapon for officer model or the squad to pick up weapons, unit vets too slow...

Sdfkz 222
Consider if possible from a technical point of of view to panzerbuchse upgrade. This is historically correct since some 221 had their hmg replaced by panzerbuchse (or other AT weapons). If such upgrade boosted HP abit and made the vehicle able to fight light tank it would help Ostheer against T70 and Stuarts.

OKW
Flak Emplacement
Increase crew to 3 or 4 currently losing 1 model decrews weapon. Or change to an emplacement similar to UKF that can not have its crew killed or be abounded.

Not sure if this is fixed but due probably to height projectiles tented to collide allot with ground or world objects making correct placement essential to utility. If it is not fixed one can try to remove projectile completely. 222 has similar weapon with no projectile.

Unit should have veterancy bonuses as other emplacements do


Panther
Command panther needs reduction also...
14 Dec 2015, 20:27 PM
#56
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

How does the vet 2 major artillery with 9 shells perform vs trucks? Could this lead to major + another USF strike such as time on target = instant death?
14 Dec 2015, 20:53 PM
#57
avatar of SwonVIP
Donator 11

Posts: 640

Territory Points

-No longer block to help with pathfinding


Yes please.
14 Dec 2015, 23:16 PM
#58
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

How does the vet 2 major artillery with 9 shells perform vs trucks? Could this lead to major + another USF strike such as time on target = instant death?


It may be a little too good, but it also depends on how many of the shells will hit the truck itself which is also affected by LOS. If it's too easy to two hit combo a truck I may change it or reduce the range to force the Major to get closer to drop his artillery.
15 Dec 2015, 10:29 AM
#59
avatar of sorryWTFisthis

Posts: 322

Though some of these are much needed adjustments, there are way too many overbuffs and omega nerfs that make it hard for it to make it into the next official patch.


Overbuffs;

  • Pack: It is already a frustrating wipe machine to play against. Not a single buff was needed. If anything the AOE should be reduced
  • AEC; We don't need an inexpensive, Excellent-Against-Everything unit like the stuart. Cost reduction should suffice
  • Penals Damage; That increased damage is too much, and it should be felt in a test match.
  • Falls RA; These guys are fine, that suggested reduction in their RA makes them extremely good for their cost.
  • SU85; with those buffs, the price could go up further
  • Scott; That AOE buff is too much. This unit can be improved in other areas or only slightly wider AOE not the value suggested here






Overnerfs:
  • Side tech cost for OKW; That much of extra fuel for meds, repairs is a tad silly. The T4 FlaK Cost could be lower.
  • Pwerfer; This unit is finally working as it should, clearing out AT walls from a risky distance. If the kat sucks, then that is a kat problem
  • FlameHT; The last thing this unit needs is a damage nerf.
  • Obers upgrade cost; No we may revert the damage back to 8 as well.

15 Dec 2015, 11:44 AM
#60
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

1) suggestion you might want to consider:

HMG:

The issue with HMG is that they should be strong against frontal attacks but weak to flanks.

The are number of way to achieve this:

1)give directional cover similar to ATG cover. Target size could be be increased to 1.25 but the directional cover could add a rec. accuracy modifier lowering the target to 1 or even 0.90.

Benefits


2)change formation. Gunner no longer the front unit.

Problem


Benefits


3)reduce efficiency of HMG by reducing suppression and Damage but at a time buff similar working like kubel suppression. Stationary HMGs could gain more suppression, damage even los.

Problem


Benefits


4)Reduce capping speed or remove it completely. In the role as support units they should not be able to cap at normal speed.

At your disposal to explain any of these changes.


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