M4Cs are utterly mediocre medium tanks that come at 10 CP. That's just 3 less than the heavies. Unlike, say, the Tiger, it also comes from a mediocre doctrine that doesn't give Societs the elite infantry that it absolutely needs past the early game.
If you are caught with your pants down by these, it's completely your fault. Sorries.
No-Teching required M4C TrollRolfstomping
1 Dec 2015, 18:40 PM
#41
Posts: 665
1 Dec 2015, 19:02 PM
#42
Posts: 322
Utterly mediocre? Interested to know what you think about the OST PIV :/
Brummbar is very powerful
1 Dec 2015, 19:24 PM
#43
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
By the way, M4C costs 135 fuel.
5 Shermans cost 675fuel.
675 fuel at 24' (assuming no molotovs or at nades) means 28fuel/per minute through entire 24mins.
What does it mean? It means you have been completly outplayed.
5 Shermans cost 675fuel.
675 fuel at 24' (assuming no molotovs or at nades) means 28fuel/per minute through entire 24mins.
What does it mean? It means you have been completly outplayed.
1 Dec 2015, 21:17 PM
#44
Posts: 1355
I like this commander and i am using him.
He has advantages and disadvantages, if you not make a solid game you will pay for that.
One two mistakes will cost you the game because you have mostly passive abilities.
He has advantages and disadvantages, if you not make a solid game you will pay for that.
One two mistakes will cost you the game because you have mostly passive abilities.
1 Dec 2015, 23:01 PM
#45
Posts: 1617
This M4C spam is bs. Not the best medium tank, but very potent and spammable thanks to the no tech. A group of them can easly chew up axis forces.
@Australian Magic; Soviets have good early game and can easly achieve 28fuel/min which is only about capping 50-60% of the map.
@Katitof, Stug-e, P4 Command Tank and puma has nothing to do with this as they are not generlist vehicles nor game changers.
Altogether, it should be tied to tech.
@Australian Magic; Soviets have good early game and can easly achieve 28fuel/min which is only about capping 50-60% of the map.
@Katitof, Stug-e, P4 Command Tank and puma has nothing to do with this as they are not generlist vehicles nor game changers.
Altogether, it should be tied to tech.
1 Dec 2015, 23:02 PM
#46
Posts: 1617
And for the love of penis, if someone comes up to the forums with an issue don't tell him to L2P in the first round. Thanks.
1 Dec 2015, 23:08 PM
#47
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
This M4C spam is bs. Not the best medium tank, but very potent and spammable thanks to the no tech. A group of them can easly chew up axis forces.
@Australian Magic; Soviets have good early game and can easly achieve 28fuel/min which is only about capping 50-60% of the map.
@Katitof, Stug-e, P4 Command Tank and puma has nothing to do with this as they are not generlist vehicles nor game changers.
Altogether, it should be tied to tech.
Average 28F/min for 24mins means that there was almost no time when the fuel point was cut off.
1 Dec 2015, 23:15 PM
#48
Posts: 1225
Average 28F/min for 24mins means that there was almost no time when the fuel point was cut off.
Try cutting off good Soviet conscript play with DSHK support. On most maps, it will be the Axis player struggling to maintain any map.
1 Dec 2015, 23:16 PM
#49
Posts: 1617
Average 28F/min for 24mins means that there was almost no time when the fuel point was cut off.
Considering the soviets are early-mid game agressive faction it's easly managable if they get T2 up.
1 Dec 2015, 23:23 PM
#50
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Try cutting off good Soviet conscript play with DSHK support. On most maps, it will be the Axis player struggling to maintain any map.
Dshk was stolen but that's not the point. You made a point.
Good soviet player, so why dont we just assume that he was simply outplayed? All starts on the sky suggest this
1 Dec 2015, 23:23 PM
#51
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
There does seem to be a big spike in power right when the Lend lease sherman can be called in which either snowballs or wanes depending on your tank preservation. Even with poor map control the player can still call in 2 if they don't tech to T3.
I think it remaining a call in tank makes sense. Maybe a more reasonable compromise would be to allow it to be called in if they had teched to T3. That extra half a tank or so of resources in tech costs would smooth out that spike in power and even encourage them to use Tier 3 units
I think it remaining a call in tank makes sense. Maybe a more reasonable compromise would be to allow it to be called in if they had teched to T3. That extra half a tank or so of resources in tech costs would smooth out that spike in power and even encourage them to use Tier 3 units
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1 Dec 2015, 23:45 PM
#52
Posts: 665
Utterly mediocre? Interested to know what you think about the OST PIV :/
I've had far more success with the P4 myself, which also costs less. M4C's stats are not that impressive for its cost and the fact it is doctrinal. Sure, you can cheese its arrival with conspam, but both Axis factions have some answers to that (especially OKW), and conscripts alone are a pretty big manpower drain.
The screenshot also heavily suggests the OKW player was outplayed. LEig vs conspam? several raketens and a JP4 with no vet? 5 M4C at the 23 minute mark? He got overrun by conscripts and failed to capitalize on the fact that his opponent could only field 2 so-so units for 10+ minutes, looks like. A loss is natural in this position.
1 Dec 2015, 23:50 PM
#53
Posts: 1225
Dshk was stolen but that's not the point. You made a point.
Good soviet player, so why dont we just assume that he was simply outplayed? All starts on the sky suggest this
I am talking ceteris paribus, ie. given equal skill, the Soviet player will by default be ahead with the common Lend-Lease strat in both resoure income and map control, ie mass conscript with mollies into DSHKs/HT on all but maybe two maps (Crossing, Langres).
In fact, this switch from mass AI to a critical mass of armour makes this strat so hard to control and in fact arguably broken when properly executed. Ever played vs Molo? I mean, he is completely predictable and extremely slow to adapt, and still his strat can be dominant quite simply because especially Ostheer will struggle vs mass conscript play in the first place on constrained maps and will have to invest heavily in anti-inf to retain any map control when suddenly it gets hit by an ever snowballing mass of Shermans...
2 Dec 2015, 00:00 AM
#54
1 Posts: 412
People in this thread saying that 5m4cs is not that strong have clearly never seen Cpt. Molo use them.
2 Dec 2015, 00:04 AM
#55
Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7
By the way, M4C costs 135 fuel.
5 Shermans cost 675fuel.
675 fuel at 24' (assuming no molotovs or at nades) means 28fuel/per minute through entire 24mins.
What does it mean? It means you have been completly outplayed.
I have to disagree. As some people have stated you don't have to control 90% of the map (which would equal being outplayed) to have 28 fuel per minute as income. You also forgot that Lend Lease Doctrine can drop fuel for munitions even augmenting their fuel advantage and compensating possible cut off times.
Other than that, in case an Axis player manages to get out a tank of any format the Soviet player can either easily tech up to T2 (20 fuel with the most recent patch if I recall correctly) to build a ZiS in combination with AT-nades/mines or the game has already progressed so far that he is not far away - CP-wise - from calling in M4Cs to handle this single Axis tank. Assuming equal skill range, of course.
"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
2 Dec 2015, 00:18 AM
#56
7 
Posts: 1664
Dear OP: you have already had threads locked before, please stop spamming this crap. Lend-Lease isn't op. to quote you: "CASE CLOSED, MOURN AND MOVE ON." 
2 Dec 2015, 00:33 AM
#57
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
On topic of Lend-Lease, do the Assault Guards in the halftrack even contribute anything? They just seem like knockoff shock troops.
Perhaps if there were two squads of them or if they were equipped with bazookas and Thompsons (which were weapons delivered to the soviet union as part of the lend lease program) it would be worth using more
Perhaps if there were two squads of them or if they were equipped with bazookas and Thompsons (which were weapons delivered to the soviet union as part of the lend lease program) it would be worth using more
2 Dec 2015, 14:18 PM
#58
Posts: 246
It are 2 rakettens with 2 leigs. The point he makes is valid, but we can't argue about his strategies or whatever, since he didn't post a replay, but we can ask questions.
Apart from that, 5 m4c Shermans wil rape any jp4 supported by raketten werfers, since you can support them by either maxim spam with snipers or conscript horde, the latter being my favorite supporting blob of doom for the sherman horde.
Now back to those questions. Did he place enough mines, where is the triple shreck support? These are questions I like to ask.
Actually, i had a game with 5 M4Cs and no, they will not rape a shit because of paks/ shrecks / etc.
They can dish out some damage but that's it.
UA
soviets
2 Dec 2015, 14:38 PM
#59
Posts: 322
How about reducing the cost to 320/110 but link it to T4.
Brummbar is very powerful
2 Dec 2015, 15:02 PM
#60
Posts: 830
Actually, i had a game with 5 M4Cs and no, they will not rape a shit because of paks/ shrecks / etc.
They can dish out some damage but that's it.
Well oke, perhaps you can't, but I certainly can win a game with 5 m4c shermans supported by multiple cons or snipers/maxims.
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