UKF Sniper Critical Shot

Games are not decided by the persons that throw more resources into the bowl, but by the players that use their units for their defined role with maximum efficiency.
Again, Panzerfausts can be kited and avoided. A cloaked unit that has a 50 range invisible "panzerfaust" has no counter play.

except now the british doesn't even have a reliable source of AT snare. Panzerfaust can be kited but still present an obstacle. That's still better than the tommies' lack of at snare and the PIAT's inability to hit moving target.

Let's just ignore everything and go into a direct cost comparison that is irrelevant to everything I said.

Solid post dude.

But hey, I guess me being rank 4 with Brits and using the snipers every game in no way suggests that I know how they are countered.

It's not like a single sniper doesn't stop the 222 anyways. Two just do it easier.

The point of the cost comparison was to highlight just how big of a disparity there is between the cost of a 222 and double brit snipers using critical shot. If a grenadier and an mg42 are a bad day, what the fuck do you expect here? It was also to point out that you're theorycrafting perfect positioning, line of sight etc. In reality any counter is a matter of positioning, support, tactics and a little bit of luck. Your strategy works really well against braindead retards who immediately rush your sniper with their 222, but I still think that it could be countered simply by playing smarter.

Really? You know all the counters eh? After all 24 games of brits you've even fucking played in 1v1. If we assume you played an equal amount of games vs ostheer and okw, that means you have a whopping 12 games of experience against Ostheer in a 1v1 environment. But I'm sure you've seen everything they could possibly do to counter it...

As a side note for the rest of the thread, does anyone know if Infantry Awareness on the 222 and halftrack reveals cloaked units? I know the kubel one does and I suspect the Ost one does too, but I haven't tested it.

except now the british doesn't even have a reliable source of AT snare. Panzerfaust can be kited but still present an obstacle. That's still better than the tommies' lack of at snare and the PIAT's inability to hit moving target.

Said that in my first post in this thread

The point of the cost comparison was to highlight just how big of a disparity there is between the cost of a 222 and double brit snipers using critical shot. If a grenadier and an mg42 are a bad day, what the fuck do you expect here? It was also to point out that you're theorycrafting perfect positioning, line of sight etc. In reality any counter is a matter of positioning, support, tactics and a little bit of luck. Your strategy works really well against braindead retards who immediately rush your sniper with their 222, but I still think that it could be countered simply by playing smarter.

Really? You know all the counters eh? After all 24 games of brits you've even fucking played in 1v1. If we assume you played an equal amount of games vs ostheer and okw, that means you have a whopping 12 games of experience against Ostheer in a 1v1 environment. But I'm sure you've seen everything they could possibly do to counter it...

As a side note for the rest of the thread, does anyone know if Infantry Awareness on the 222 and halftrack reveals cloaked units? I know the kubel one does and I suspect the Ost one does too, but I haven't tested it.

I don't theorycraft, I apply, which is why I'm rank 4 and you aren't even in the top 100 after almost 100 games. Guess your experience means so much. And most of my games were against Ostheer, since anyone with half a brain doesn't play OKW in 1v1 this patch.

Playing against people like Paula, you know, the definition of META ABUSER, is worth 20 times the typical automatch game for understanding what is actually broken in this game. But hey, le brits are dead le axis OpieOP l2p nub right.

Play the damn balance mod and stop crying. The snare isn't going anywhere, it still crits the engine, the ONLY difference is that auto attacks DONT crit engines now. You have to wait till vet 1, which, holy shit, gives the 222 a window to be useful.

For all your "experience," you didn't even know what infantry awareness does. Amazing.

Said that in my first post in this thread

In my opinion an AT snare on a cloaked unit that has a range of 50 offers no chances of counterplay:

Squads with snares can be kited & mines can be swept. The critical shot can not be avoided, it comes out of the blue.

Okw has also no snares on their core units but at least a schreck and their call in snares (falls, fusiliers) are good units that can be used in viable strats. While the boys at rifle squad is rather meh, even with the upcoming changes.

You will simply have to rely more on the AEC now and we will see how it turns out.

I've seen the AEC in action and I'm not impressed. The 20mm on the luch can reliably damage the AEC. The volks will have Faust or schreck, and will reliably ward off the AEC.

Neither the tommies nor the Sapper have at nade or an accurate ATW. the 222 can easily dance around both.

Right now the british have no native at snare. Both the AEC and the Sniper require vet1 for their at snare.

Yeah, they don't, so the sniper is their snare. Problem is the sniper is a RETARDEDLY effective snare, and a counter to light vehicls at the same time. It's like TWP being on an AT gun, except an AT gun doesn't have 360 degree coverage, camo, or the responsiveness of a sniper.

A gren squad, conscript squad, or any rifle squad that has a snare does not snare and COUNTER the unit at the same time without upgrades like bazookas. So give tommies or engies an AT nade, I don't really care, but the sniper in its current iteration offers too much utility, which is why every good brit player builds 2 or 3 of them.

Also, you guys do realize the snare isn't going AWAY right? It's moving to vet 1. Wow, muh snare comes so late. Except it doesn't. The current balance mod makes 222s actually have a window to counter the snipers.

I don't theorycraft, I apply, which is why I'm rank 4 and you aren't even in the top 100 after almost 100 games. Guess your experience means so much. And most of my games were against Ostheer, since anyone with half a brain doesn't play OKW in 1v1 this patch.

Playing against people like Paula, you know, the definition of META ABUSER, is worth 20 times the typical automatch game for understanding what is actually broken in this game. But hey, le brits are dead le axis OpieOP l2p nub right.

I spend most of my games experimenting with dumb build orders rather than trying to win as quickly as possible. You seem like the type of person who spams grenadiers when they play Ostheer thinking it's a good build order.


I'm not arguing brits are dead or axis is OP, I'm arguing that this change was brought about by idiots like you who don't let the metagame have any time for people to develop new strategies and ways of dealing with things. "Waah rushing my 222 directly at the sniper doesn't work, Reric plz nerf".

The best thing that will ever happen to this game is for Relic to stop making balance patches because then maybe we'll see "high level" players stop floating 2K resources in tournament games.

For all your "experience," you didn't even know what infantry awareness does. Amazing.

You'd be surprised what you forget when you don't play at all for a year and come back.

I spend most of my games experimenting with dumb build orders rather than trying to win as quickly as possible. You seem like the type of person who spams grenadiers when they play Ostheer thinking it's a good build order.


I'm not arguing brits are dead or axis is OP, I'm arguing that this change was brought about by idiots like you who don't let the metagame have any time for people to develop new strategies and ways of dealing with things.

The best thing that will ever happen to this game is for Relic to stop making balance patches because then maybe we'll see "high level" players stop floating 2K resources in tournament games.

Ah yes, the classic "I dont try so my ranks aren't real" bullshit.

Yes, because I apparently decide how the patch works. Hokay then.

See you in the next tournament.

You'd be surprised what you forget when you don't play at all for a year and come back.

Great, so you're just shitposting on the forums, the definition of a useless theorycrafter that doesn't understand the game.

I bet you haven't even played the balance mod.

Ah yes, the classic "I dont try so my ranks aren't real" bullshit.

Yes, because I apparently decide how the patch works. Hokay then.

See you in the next tournament.

A few weeks ago I was doing triple kubelwagon openings as OKW for about 10-15 games. A few of them I even built 4 of them. It's pretty easy to drop a couple hundred ranks doing that sort of thing. Try it sometime.



*shrug* maybe you will if I have time to play. I've been wanting to participate for awhile but I have a hard time taking weekends off of work to play in them.

I bet you haven't even played the balance mod.

I have played a little bit, but it was hard to find games. I only really care about testing 1v1. Add me on steam if you want to play some games sometime. Steamid assassin2470

Wow. Now we're gonna have to build an AT gun BEFORE our second sniper. SO GIMPED.

Anyone ever notice how often brit mines DESTROY engines? Time to stop floating munis for I win planes and actually use that muni on mines. It'll be a good habit to get into anyways, I win planes aren't gonna be I win planes too much longer. Also, AEC is totally a thing you can build.

Yeah just go aec, it's the best sniper screen in the game lol 2 shotting 222s and shit

Man you people are clueless

Y'all can bitch about the Brit sniper being "bad" but obviously top level Brit players disagree when they all get two snipers MINIMUM.

2+ snipers is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot with half the maps in rotation (see: anything remotely urban like Arhnem or semois).

All the axis player has to do is spam LMG grens while you awkwardly juggle vickers and sniper placement while dodging rifle nades and CAS strafes.

gl with that build order

2+ snipers is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot with half the maps in rotation (see: anything remotely urban like Arhnem or semois).

All the axis player has to do is spam LMG grens while you awkwardly juggle vickers and sniper placement while dodging rifle nades and CAS strafes.

gl with that build order

Sure bud, keep telling yourself that.

Good thing CAS is getting nerfed then.

Ill keep winning with this build order, thanks.

Your scenarios are not relevant.

Because you say so?

The rest of your comparisons are just semantics for the sake of being contrarian and an edgelord. Completely useless post. Try harder please.

This is sadly not a real argument, but namecalling, and also you seem to be misusing the word "semantics", which appears to mean in your vocabulary "a comparison I do not agree with." If you do not want to argue counterpoints then that's fine, just admit it and I'll let it go.

But okay, I will try harder. I honestly was not being contrarian, I was honestly trying to make a point. Please understand that.

You will be surprised to learn that I am an avid opponent of snipers as they stood in coh1 and I am not happy with them in coh2. I want snipers to be less dominant in the meta, not more. But you can't see even that. I want the Brits to have a viable snare, and think it is completely unfair to use a single unit, the 222, to justify gimping an entire faction.

This game is full of counters, some are soft, some are hard. Relic clearly wanted the 222 to perform better as a sniper hunter, and the British sniper can counter the 222 with his snare ability. I am not disputing those things. However, I do not see how these two things are mutually exclusive. Counters being countered themselves is nothing foreign to CoH2, as it usually comes down to skill, facing, positioning, numbers, and micro. This was my sole point and I gave some examples for that, like tanks being able to take on at guns, and infantry being able to flank and take out an MG, Antitank infantry being able to damage anti-infantry vehicles etc. This is what makes coh2 great in my opinion, it's not just what you have, it's how you use it that determines the outcome.

And yet people think that they can use the fact 222 is meant to hunt snipers, to justify the complete removal of the sole British snare because in their mind conceptually the 222 must unconditionally win against the sniper? Are you saying you want a 222 to always be able to win against the sniper? Keep in mind this is not the same equation as m20 vs ostheer sniper, because Ostheer has fausts. And why do we conveniently forget the British sniper is a tier 2 tech unit with worse stats than the Ostheer sniper? For what reason is that so, if you want him to unconditionally fare just as badly versus 222 as an Ostheer sniper would against the M20? Why is antitank infantry allowed to take on Ostwinds, Centaurs and the like, but a sniper with an antitank rifle is not allowed to take on a light vehicle? Why are you allowed to theorycraft more than one tank when discussing AT gun flanking, but insist 222 / sniper equation must be 1 on 1? I could just as well say, use more than one 222 to attack the sniper, they can't both be snared by one sniper, can they?

Contrary to what you may think, I know what you are saying. My examples are not comparable because the sniper is invisible, the snare comes out of the blue and leaves no room for counterplay for the 222 player. Okay, this is something we can talk about (my question now is, how is that different from, say, a couple of Raketenwerfers taking down an m20 in a single salvo?) but, you would much rather stoop to namecalling so I don't think there is material for discussion there.

If you aren't successful with Brits (which, judging by your stats, it seems you aren't) then don't be surprised that better players figured out how to use the sniper and abuse its broken counter relationship.

This is where you start outright belittling me, which I find odd, since I hover around ~150 with brits, which is enough for me to meet top of the ladder frequently and is really nothing to be ashamed of.

I am sorry if that rank is not to your satisfaction, but I am in a way really happy to see you had to resort to that instead of arguing the point.

It does give rise to an interesting question - how big of a rank does one need to have to be able to post in this section without being subject to ridicule from you? I suppose your rank of ~60 with Brits is cool while mine of ~160 whatever isn't? Where do we draw the line, exactly? Why listen to you, then? Why not top 20? Why don't we just shut down the forums and allow the 1st player on the ladder to post what he thinks about balance?

Get off your high horse. I have no idea why you think is okay to act like a dick towards other people in a balance discussion. If you disagree with me, fair enough, but there is no need to be hostile and call me names. If you are here to dismiss everything everyone else says and insult people, you will never learn anything.

The fact is, the sniper is such a special unit. Snipers probably are the most annoying unit of the whole game if being used properly. So Relic needs to introduce some real counters to prevent gameplay from becoming boring.

The fact that the brits don't have a snare on basic infantry is another issue but don't complain about the removement of negative user-experiences. Because it is needed to be removed.

Dusty vs world.

"Rushing 222 directly at the sniper?"So doesn't the brits have a unit called 6 pounder AT gun? And the thin armored 222 which can be used only kiting can dance now?

People just ignore the brits has AEC/6 pounder/mines/piat options. What they want is hard countering light vehicles by a single snare ability on a camo unit which has long range and then skipping to their earlier medium tanks.

Doesn't Relic encourage combined arms?

*snip*

Instead of putting all the effort into that to argue the removal of the snare, realize what I posted.

THE SNARE.

STILL.

EXISTS.

AT.

VET.

1.

Play the damn balance mods.

Doesn't Relic encourage combined arms?

The timing is tricky, but generally I agree that you can counter 222 through other means. (Piats or 6lber/AEC)

The thing I disagree with here isn't the change itself but why it is being made.

Also I'm more concerned about the removal of passive stuns from attacks than the crit shot being vet 1. I would like that to be rolled into the snipers veterancy atleast than completely removed.