Login

russian armor
COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » Lobby » Panzer 4 penetration.

Panzer 4 penetration.

PAGES (4)down
New topic New topic     Upload replay New Reply
Dullahan
4 Nov 2015, 02:50 AM
#61
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:36 AMMr. Someguy


Because it costs 15 fuel more yet hardly does better than a Sherman. Yet for 15 fuel more than the Panzer IV you get the Easy Eight which utterly dominates it. The Panzer IV is either overpriced or under-performing in relation to these units.


Comparing units cross faction is pretty dumb, yo.

They're in different armies and function very differently within them. Next you're going to tell me that the Jackson is either overpriced or under-performing in relation to the Stug or Firefly and the Luchs is way too cost effective compared to the T70 or Stuart.

Similar role doesn't mean you should make 1:1 comparisons. Does a Sherman have Pak40's to support it? Does a Sherman have Stugs to support it? Does a Sherman have teller mines to screen for it?


Cost is about controlling the time a unit appears and how frequently it can appear. It is not a measure of unit performance, although there is often a correlation between the two for balance reasons.







Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 03:34 AM
#62
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

IMO pennetration values need to be overhauled completely. While Front armour is working as intended for meds vs heavies, rear armour certainly isn't especially when it comes to flanking.

Its frustrating to see when you successfully pull off a flank in your meds only to find that your shot just bounces off because lel rear armour values.

Maybe all meds need a penn buff - to compensate, heavy frontal armour needs a armour buff but rear armour needs a relative nerf as well.

Certainly by 1944, just about all mediums had the pennetration to deal with each other should they score a hit, yet this is not reflected in the game, a lot of shells in med vs med bounce off.
Had fun doing this earlier
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Hat
4 Nov 2015, 04:24 AM
#63
avatar of Hat

Posts: 166

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:36 AMMr. Someguy


Because it costs 15 fuel more yet hardly does better than a Sherman.


The Sherman is for anti-infantry. Its anti-tank roll is supposed to be very limited.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
wandererraven
4 Nov 2015, 04:52 AM
#64
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

Anti infantry but 75 mm ap round penetration better Pz4 at close range
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 05:38 AM
#65
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 04:24 AMHat


The Sherman is for anti-infantry. Its anti-tank roll is supposed to be very limited.


Not really.... Even the Sherman could deal with the Pz 4 reasonably effectively, as they found in North Africa, so they didn't really change their tanks much because it was fine against the backbone German Tank.

Of course, it suffered in Normandy against Panthers and Tigers in direct engagements - they couldn't effectively deal with Panther/Tiger frontal armour.
Had fun doing this earlier
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Maschinengewehr
4 Nov 2015, 05:57 AM
#66
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

There's a little thing called a StuG III if you want more penetration. The P4 trades off AT power for more AI power. It's fine.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 07:54 AM
#67
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 05:57 AMMaschinengewehr
There's a little thing called a StuG III if you want more penetration. The P4 trades off AT power for more AI power. It's fine.


No-one is asking for Pz 4s to penn HTs frontally.

They just want enough penn to penn main mediums frontally and rear of heavy tanks, which I'm perfectly fine with.

FTR, I believe all med tanks should reliably penn each other - they certainly did by 1944, no-one had a real advantage when it came to armour vs guns.
Had fun doing this earlier
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Iron Emperor
4 Nov 2015, 08:18 AM
#68
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Penetration from 110 to 140 would do wonders in my opinion. Or at least on par with shermans.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
austerlitz
4 Nov 2015, 10:25 AM
#69
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Penetration less than sherman is a disgrace.Or reduce cost to 115 fuel.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
wandererraven
4 Nov 2015, 10:52 AM
#70
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

Armor higher than sherman
For now Panzer 4 need avoid battle other tank with close range
and now use no more than 1 tank by use stug 3 or other tank
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Kreatiir
4 Nov 2015, 11:05 AM
#71
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:19 AMThe_rEd_bEar
Why do people think that because a tank is German and if it doesn't roflstop everything in the game then it needs a buff


Exactly.
Moderate tanks are considered bad tanks here.

There is nothing wrong with this tank. It doesn't rek everything in its way but it is an excellent tank that scales extremely well in the later game.
Penetration is ok.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 11:10 AM
#72
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 11:05 AMKreatiir


Exactly.
Moderate tanks are considered bad tanks here.

There is nothing wrong with this tank. It doesn't rek everything in its way but it is an excellent tank that scales extremely well in the later game.
Penetration is ok.


I'd agree with you except for med vs med performance and med vs heavy rear armour performance. There should be a buff so that all meds can reliably penn each other and they can reliably penn heavies.

That was what it was like in 1944 WW2, I don't see why this can't happen in CoH2.
Had fun doing this earlier
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
bicho1
4 Nov 2015, 11:14 AM
#73
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:21 AMkitekaze
After PanzerIV buff, what will happen to T34 and Sherman? Evolving from useless to garbage?

This game is not Axis vs British game, please consider those situation unless you are a fanboy.


+1!!!
Aixe allwase cry for more if panzer get a buff t34 and sherman get them too !!!!
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
bicho1
4 Nov 2015, 11:23 AM
#74
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

Pershing need a buff
2 stugs take him out ...
Efter this unit we can talk about the p4
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
zarok47
4 Nov 2015, 12:07 PM
#75
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 02:50 AMDullahan


Comparing units cross faction is pretty dumb, yo.



Except when you compared units cross faction?

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Nov 2015, 20:29 PMDullahan


Do riflemen have satchel charges, come from the same building as a clown car and get Oorah at vet 2?

It's a fucking comparison, they are very similar (Good damage, not squishy) units with flamers.


jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 15:21 PMFelixTHM

Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
WingZero
4 Nov 2015, 16:45 PM
#76
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:19 AMThe_rEd_bEar
Why do people think that because a tank is German and if it doesn't roflstop everything in the game then it needs a buff


Sums up the thread. P4 is fine for its cost and timing. You can use P4 for both infantry engagements and tanks. I use Sherman exclusively for anti infantry and use AT guns for anti tank.












Playercard of WingZero

4v4: Pstreak: - 1with STALKER ★★★, -NSO-Sasha, & Happy Camper
4v4: Pstreak: + 2with -NSO-Sasha, Happy Camper, & -NSO- HitzeLockdown
4v4: Pstreak: + 2with -NSO-Sasha, Happy Camper, & -NSO- HitzeLockdown
4v4: Pstreak: - 2with -NSO-Sasha, Happy Camper, & -NSO- HitzeLockdown


Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Dullahan
4 Nov 2015, 18:19 PM
#77
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 12:07 PMzarok47


Except when you compared units cross faction?




A very different sort of comparison. I was refuting the idea that main line battle infantry with flamers is inherently imbalanced. Penal batts are certainly balance in their role, I don't think anyone would argue that.



Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Trubbbel
6 Nov 2015, 16:15 PM
#78
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 08:15 AMKatitof
Newsflash:

T34s and shermans are also highly ineffective vs axis heavy armor.

You don't use medium tanks vs heavy tanks, you use TDs and ATGs with medium tanks protecting them from inf mainly.

I am inclined to agree. INCLINED, but not completely agreed.


Mostly because I would've wanted to say it first.
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
boc120
6 Nov 2015, 16:41 PM
#79
avatar of boc120

Posts: 245

I think that all tanks should have rear armor that is weak enough for any other tank to penetrate it. I don't care how strong Tiger or Churchill rear armor was in real life, Shermans on AP or a P4 should be able to penetrate the rear of any tank.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
AchtAchter
6 Nov 2015, 17:36 PM
#80
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 18:19 PMDullahan


A very different sort of comparison. I was refuting the idea that main line battle infantry with flamers is inherently imbalanced. Penal batts are certainly balance in their role, I don't think anyone would argue that.


penals can't get BAR's in addition to the flamethrowers, don't have snares, grenades & smoke and they don'T enter the matrix on vet 3 and start dodging bullets.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
PAGES (4)down
New topic New topic     Upload replay New Reply
0 user is browsing this thread:
COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » Lobby » Panzer 4 penetration.

Ladders Top 10

UKF
USF
OKW
SOV
OST
1v1
2v2
3v3
4v4
  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

Top Tier Teams
VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
Einhoven Country
Einhoven Country Honor
Honor it
11
 Download
Download
1257
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

770 users are online: 1 member and 769 guests
aerafield
1 post in the last 24h
5 posts in the last week
20 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49667
Welcome our newest member, Chmura
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM