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Panzer 4 penetration.

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Dullahan
4 Nov 2015, 02:50 AM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:36 AMMr. Someguy


Because it costs 15 fuel more yet hardly does better than a Sherman. Yet for 15 fuel more than the Panzer IV you get the Easy Eight which utterly dominates it. The Panzer IV is either overpriced or under-performing in relation to these units.


Comparing units cross faction is pretty dumb, yo.

They're in different armies and function very differently within them. Next you're going to tell me that the Jackson is either overpriced or under-performing in relation to the Stug or Firefly and the Luchs is way too cost effective compared to the T70 or Stuart.

Similar role doesn't mean you should make 1:1 comparisons. Does a Sherman have Pak40's to support it? Does a Sherman have Stugs to support it? Does a Sherman have teller mines to screen for it?


Cost is about controlling the time a unit appears and how frequently it can appear. It is not a measure of unit performance, although there is often a correlation between the two for balance reasons.







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hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 03:34 AM
#62
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Posts: 928

IMO pennetration values need to be overhauled completely. While Front armour is working as intended for meds vs heavies, rear armour certainly isn't especially when it comes to flanking.

Its frustrating to see when you successfully pull off a flank in your meds only to find that your shot just bounces off because lel rear armour values.

Maybe all meds need a penn buff - to compensate, heavy frontal armour needs a armour buff but rear armour needs a relative nerf as well.

Certainly by 1944, just about all mediums had the pennetration to deal with each other should they score a hit, yet this is not reflected in the game, a lot of shells in med vs med bounce off.
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Hat
4 Nov 2015, 04:24 AM
#63
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Posts: 166

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:36 AMMr. Someguy


Because it costs 15 fuel more yet hardly does better than a Sherman.


The Sherman is for anti-infantry. Its anti-tank roll is supposed to be very limited.
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wandererraven
4 Nov 2015, 04:52 AM
#64
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Posts: 353

Anti infantry but 75 mm ap round penetration better Pz4 at close range
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hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 05:38 AM
#65
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Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 04:24 AMHat


The Sherman is for anti-infantry. Its anti-tank roll is supposed to be very limited.


Not really.... Even the Sherman could deal with the Pz 4 reasonably effectively, as they found in North Africa, so they didn't really change their tanks much because it was fine against the backbone German Tank.

Of course, it suffered in Normandy against Panthers and Tigers in direct engagements - they couldn't effectively deal with Panther/Tiger frontal armour.
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Maschinengewehr
4 Nov 2015, 05:57 AM
#66
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There's a little thing called a StuG III if you want more penetration. The P4 trades off AT power for more AI power. It's fine.
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hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 07:54 AM
#67
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 05:57 AMMaschinengewehr
There's a little thing called a StuG III if you want more penetration. The P4 trades off AT power for more AI power. It's fine.


No-one is asking for Pz 4s to penn HTs frontally.

They just want enough penn to penn main mediums frontally and rear of heavy tanks, which I'm perfectly fine with.

FTR, I believe all med tanks should reliably penn each other - they certainly did by 1944, no-one had a real advantage when it came to armour vs guns.
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Iron Emperor
4 Nov 2015, 08:18 AM
#68
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Posts: 1653

Penetration from 110 to 140 would do wonders in my opinion. Or at least on par with shermans.
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austerlitz
4 Nov 2015, 10:25 AM
#69
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Posts: 1705

Penetration less than sherman is a disgrace.Or reduce cost to 115 fuel.
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wandererraven
4 Nov 2015, 10:52 AM
#70
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Posts: 353

Armor higher than sherman
For now Panzer 4 need avoid battle other tank with close range
and now use no more than 1 tank by use stug 3 or other tank
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Kreatiir
4 Nov 2015, 11:05 AM
#71
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Posts: 2819

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:19 AMThe_rEd_bEar
Why do people think that because a tank is German and if it doesn't roflstop everything in the game then it needs a buff


Exactly.
Moderate tanks are considered bad tanks here.

There is nothing wrong with this tank. It doesn't rek everything in its way but it is an excellent tank that scales extremely well in the later game.
Penetration is ok.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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hubewa
4 Nov 2015, 11:10 AM
#72
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Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 11:05 AMKreatiir


Exactly.
Moderate tanks are considered bad tanks here.

There is nothing wrong with this tank. It doesn't rek everything in its way but it is an excellent tank that scales extremely well in the later game.
Penetration is ok.


I'd agree with you except for med vs med performance and med vs heavy rear armour performance. There should be a buff so that all meds can reliably penn each other and they can reliably penn heavies.

That was what it was like in 1944 WW2, I don't see why this can't happen in CoH2.
Had fun doing this earlier
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bicho1
4 Nov 2015, 11:14 AM
#73
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Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:21 AMkitekaze
After PanzerIV buff, what will happen to T34 and Sherman? Evolving from useless to garbage?

This game is not Axis vs British game, please consider those situation unless you are a fanboy.


+1!!!
Aixe allwase cry for more if panzer get a buff t34 and sherman get them too !!!!
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bicho1
4 Nov 2015, 11:23 AM
#74
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Posts: 168

Pershing need a buff
2 stugs take him out ...
Efter this unit we can talk about the p4
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zarok47
4 Nov 2015, 12:07 PM
#75
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Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 02:50 AMDullahan


Comparing units cross faction is pretty dumb, yo.



Except when you compared units cross faction?

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Nov 2015, 20:29 PMDullahan


Do riflemen have satchel charges, come from the same building as a clown car and get Oorah at vet 2?

It's a fucking comparison, they are very similar (Good damage, not squishy) units with flamers.


jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 15:21 PMFelixTHM

Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
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WingZero
4 Nov 2015, 16:45 PM
#76
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Posts: 1484

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 05:19 AMThe_rEd_bEar
Why do people think that because a tank is German and if it doesn't roflstop everything in the game then it needs a buff


Sums up the thread. P4 is fine for its cost and timing. You can use P4 for both infantry engagements and tanks. I use Sherman exclusively for anti infantry and use AT guns for anti tank.












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Dullahan
4 Nov 2015, 18:19 PM
#77
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Posts: 1384

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 12:07 PMzarok47


Except when you compared units cross faction?




A very different sort of comparison. I was refuting the idea that main line battle infantry with flamers is inherently imbalanced. Penal batts are certainly balance in their role, I don't think anyone would argue that.



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Trubbbel
6 Nov 2015, 16:15 PM
#78
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Posts: 721

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 08:15 AMKatitof
Newsflash:

T34s and shermans are also highly ineffective vs axis heavy armor.

You don't use medium tanks vs heavy tanks, you use TDs and ATGs with medium tanks protecting them from inf mainly.

I am inclined to agree. INCLINED, but not completely agreed.


Mostly because I would've wanted to say it first.
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
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boc120
6 Nov 2015, 16:41 PM
#79
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Posts: 245

I think that all tanks should have rear armor that is weak enough for any other tank to penetrate it. I don't care how strong Tiger or Churchill rear armor was in real life, Shermans on AP or a P4 should be able to penetrate the rear of any tank.
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AchtAchter
6 Nov 2015, 17:36 PM
#80
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Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 18:19 PMDullahan


A very different sort of comparison. I was refuting the idea that main line battle infantry with flamers is inherently imbalanced. Penal batts are certainly balance in their role, I don't think anyone would argue that.


penals can't get BAR's in addition to the flamethrowers, don't have snares, grenades & smoke and they don'T enter the matrix on vet 3 and start dodging bullets.
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