OKW Infantry versus American Infantry(Rifles)

also lol @ the people who want pre-nerf obers, you cant be fucking serious now

Double nerf killed the unit.Now OKW defenceless against ukf/us allied infantry much of the time.OKW needs some purposedly OP units to make up for its brutal penalties.
Or remove vet 5 and resource penalty thing altogether and turn it into regular faction.

Thats not called overperforming, thats called performing to expectations.

My point is unless there are powerful vet 4 and 5 bonuses which is regularly achievable ,and strong units in general bordering on OP -there is no justification for resource penalties.You can't nerf these units without faction collapsing like now because it is inherently hobbled from the start with penalties.

My point is unless there are powerful vet 4 and 5 bonuses which is regularly achievable ,and strong uni
ts in general bordering on OP -there is no justification for resource penalties.You can't nerf these units without faction collapsing like now because it is inherently hobbled from the start with penalties.

Oh, my point was not to disagree, just to further your point!

My point is unless there are powerful vet 4 and 5 bonuses which is regularly achievable ,and strong units in general bordering on OP -there is no justification for resource penalties.You can't nerf these units without faction collapsing like now because it is inherently hobbled from the start with penalties.

u have to take in account that obers are ai only squad so the perfomance also should reflect that

Double nerf killed the unit.Now OKW defenceless against ukf/us allied infantry much of the time.OKW needs some purposedly OP units to make up for its brutal penalties.
Or remove vet 5 and resource penalty thing altogether and turn it into regular faction.

also very much this
one side note:which city are u from..??

The Luchs is in a horrible place tech wise. They ought to move it to Battlegroup HQ or Mechanized HQ. It costs 195 fu (adjusted) to rush out a Luchs. For comparison: JPIV costs 202 fu (adjusted)

Adjusting the fuel is very, very silly. Rate of fuel income is affected by territory you control. OKW get less income because they can divert resources from muni to fuel. Not sure on the exact percentage that gets converted but I'd wager it's significant.

So in other words, if you want a fast luchs you can absolutely have it very quickly. The only real limiting factor is waiting for the sws halftrack to spawn.

The reason the luchs is in the panzer command is to make rushing oanzer command a viable mid game build. If you get BHQ--> PC you need a light vehicle.

Even building mech at the start of the game then panzer asap after can mean a really fast luchs + pziv. You just have to micromanage resource conversion so you have enough muni for sturmpio medkits.

If Relic ever listens to you guys and swaps okw units around they'll be a much lamer faction for it. No one else has the teching variety OKW has. Experiment sometime and you'll see how neato they are.

On the other hand Obers should get a cost and vet requirement reduction since they are far away from their Übermensch performance pre nerf and don´t scale well against other elite infantry or Rifles with 1919´s.

Cost reduction will "increase" veterancy gain since experience gained from damaging is based on the unit's value, so the latter might end up being unnecessary. The lower the value of the unit, the more experience they can gain from damaging their targets.

Oh yeah and nerf a lot of Allied infantry vet.

Adjusting the fuel is very, very silly. Rate of fuel income is affected by territory you control. OKW get less income because they can divert resources from muni to fuel. Not sure on the exact percentage that gets converted but I'd wager it's significant.

So in other words, if you want a fast luchs you can absolutely have it very quickly. The only real limiting factor is waiting for the sws halftrack to spawn.

The reason the luchs is in the panzer command is to make rushing oanzer command a viable mid game build. If you get BHQ--> PC you need a light vehicle.

Even building mech at the start of the game then panzer asap after can mean a really fast luchs + pziv. You just have to micromanage resource conversion so you have enough muni for sturmpio medkits.

If Relic ever listens to you guys and swaps okw units around they'll be a much lamer faction for it. No one else has the teching variety OKW has. Experiment sometime and you'll see how neato they are.

I never advocated a fuel rate adjustment. You misunderstood the intent of my post. I was just saying that an OKW player can get a luchs out at the same time as he can rush a JPIV. The Luchs is horribly placed in the tech structure. It'd be like moving t-70 to soviet T4

I never advocated a fuel rate adjustment. You misunderstood the intent of my post. I was just saying that an OKW player can get a luchs out at the same time as he can rush a JPIV. The Luchs is horribly placed in the tech structure. It'd be like moving t-70 to soviet T4

Plus a rushed luchs will meet at least one or two zis guns plus at nades or a t70 supported by at nades and zis or a stuart suppported by captain with bazookas and perhaps even a 57mm at gun.

I never advocated a fuel rate adjustment. You misunderstood the intent of my post. I was just saying that an OKW player can get a luchs out at the same time as he can rush a JPIV. The Luchs is horribly placed in the tech structure. It'd be like moving t-70 to soviet T4

I'm not saying you're advocating for normalized OKW income, I'm saying that multiplying OKW fuel costs by 1.3 is really silly. OKW get less income but have stronger map presence and can temporarily double their fuel income with resource conversion. A little bit of micromanagement with resource conversion and OKW actually have a resource advantage over other factions.

I'm not saying you're advocating for normalized OKW income, I'm saying that multiplying OKW fuel costs by 1.3 is really silly. OKW get less income but have stronger map presence and can temporarily double their fuel income with resource conversion. A little bit of micromanagement with resource conversion and OKW actually have a resource advantage over other factions.

are you really sure that okw has stronger map presence?
i dont know your rank but i just got ranked 400s after 10 games as usf and i just steamroll them from early to late (mostly no late because surr)

are you really sure that okw has stronger map presence?
i dont know your rank but i just got ranked 400s after 10 games as usf and i just steamroll them from early to late (mostly no late because surr)

Trucks give them a ton of field presence. They have a large variety of potent light armour units. They have theoretically the best field defenses. (shame flak emplacement is broken).

Brits are a little harder to move, but a well placed panzer command can basically prevent your opponent from capping a third of the map. (Unless they are smart enough to use smoke.)

I'm generally of the opinion that most people playing OKW right now are doing it wrong (tm) but I don't have enough prestige in these here parts to flaunt that opinion. Too heavy on volks, not enough vehicles.

I never did like Volks' role as cannon fodder. Oberkommando was supposed to be the remaining elite troops, so that should have been reflected in their cost and performance. I'd rather have seen them be very expensive, but extremely strong. Kind of like infantry sections, actually. And I'll be honest, I don't know why people say Obers are so good. They used to be good, but nowadays they're just overpriced, squishy grenadiers. I don't know why people think they're so great. I´d seriously rather have grens, because at least they're cost efficient.

Cost reduction will "increase" veterancy gain since experience gained from damaging is based on the unit's value, so the latter might end up being unnecessary. The lower the value of the unit, the more experience they can gain from damaging their targets.

Oh yeah and nerf a lot of Allied infantry vet.

That's actually not how it works. Pretty sure it makes them worth less XP when being shot at, but gaining experience is another thing which is separate.

Generally the XP requirements tend to be double the unit's cost and the next level is just the previous amount multiplied by two. Not sure on OKW as they have five levels though the gap I don't really notice with Obers as they consistently hit and kill things with ease.

Responding to Dullahan: Main issue with the OKW vehicles is that their hardcounters are generally on the field and they are risky investments. They can be high-risk-high-reward, especially vs unprepared player, but the most common build orders have their counter. Brits have mines and can get a very quick 6pdr, USF captain tech is a major counter and Soviet T3 does have response units as does T2. Of course they can help win the infantry war, but they can be overwhelmed as well or forced to pull back before they can do enough.

Regardless, the main issue I'm talking about is that the OKW's starting roster tends to crumple without any sort of doctrinal support or Obers to anchor the line on, especially when the WFA/Brits get vet. Obers are good, and are godlike when vetted, but that's resting a whole lot of the army on their shoulders to defeat hostile infantry. They don't have snipers to inflict MP bleed or to ignore those received accuracy bonuses and leigs aren't a replacement for MGs. I wouldn't mind making Ober vet less ridiculous in strength along with the doctrinal support if the doctrinal/Obers weren't completely necessary to compete in the later stages in the game against infantry.

I'm generally of the opinion that most people playing OKW right now are doing it wrong (tm) but I don't have enough prestige in these here parts to flaunt that opinion. Too heavy on volks, not enough vehicles.

i need a playercard to believe this, otherwise just empty words

That's actually not how it works. Pretty sure it makes them worth less XP when being shot at, but gaining experience is another thing which is separate.

Generally the XP requirements tend to be double the unit's cost and the next level is just the previous amount multiplied by two. Not sure on OKW as they have five levels though the gap I don't really notice with Obers as they consistently hit and kill things with ease.

Responding to Dullahan: Main issue with the OKW vehicles is that their hardcounters are generally on the field and they are risky investments. They can be high-risk-high-reward, especially vs unprepared player, but the most common build orders have their counter. Brits have mines and can get a very quick 6pdr, USF captain tech is a major counter and Soviet T3 does have response units as does T2. Of course they can help win the infantry war, but they can be overwhelmed as well or forced to pull back before they can do enough.

Regardless, the main issue I'm talking about is that the OKW's starting roster tends to crumple without any sort of doctrinal support or Obers to anchor the line on, especially when the WFA/Brits get vet. Obers are good, and are godlike when vetted, but that's resting a whole lot of the army on their shoulders to defeat hostile infantry. They don't have snipers to inflict MP bleed or to ignore those received accuracy bonuses and leigs aren't a replacement for MGs. I wouldn't mind making Ober vet less ridiculous in strength along with the doctrinal support if the doctrinal/Obers weren't completely necessary to compete in the later stages in the game against infantry.

Just because a counter is on the field doesn't mean your vehicles have to tuck their tail between their legs and skulk in the command sector.

Of course you're going to struggle (without doctrinal support) if you ignore more than half your available options.

The best units to deal with veteran infantry are all vehicles: Flak halftrack, luchs and stuka.
OKW also have the best tools for map awareness: Kuvel vet 1 and flashlight ht.

That's actually not how it works. Pretty sure it makes them worth less XP when being shot at, but gaining experience is another thing which is separate.

You sure? 'Cause Osttruppen gain veterancy pretty hilarious fast, which I was under the belief had to do with what I stated, combined with how they actually were made for combat unlike the engineer units that are just about the only thing cheaper than them and definitely don't gain XP as fast.

On Sturm veterancy requirements, it could be tone down a wee bit but a extreme amount as I frequently get to veterancy 2 where they become more lethal and that concussive grenade at veterancy 3 even more so.

If Sturm were buffed it can be their STG44s swapped for MP40s considering they act like smgs already and put the Stg44s as a upgrade once teched up for 60 or 90 munitions. Of course these STG44s should act as assault rifles and beat Rangers, Shocks, etc. at mid range and more so if they simply charge across open field. Even as so far beating Riflemen with one BAR at mid to close range but losing at long.

This would encourage more synergy with Obers (which I do adore as you can tell with any reply of mine) and Volksgrenadiers. Protecting them, such as a buffer, and give them an indirect buff as a long range squad being protected by the more elite and costly Sturmpios.

I prefer the MG42 or even the MG34 over the kubel. The kubel is too fragile compared to the other two and cannot be garrisoned either. I just get the feeling of more confidence rolling out other factions mg's as opposed to the kubel. Perhaps making the MG34 a main stay of the OKW.

MG34 is pretty bad though.