Flame Hetzer Blows

Hetzer is a jesus tank. Last game i played samoskyi winter and it was able to go throught water (because ice was destroyed) like if there was ice , but there cant be ice after british nuke superiority

Video. Please Please Please Please

Its fine. They just don't melt infantry as much. I can't see fighting a brit player without some flame vehicles. Excellent against bunkers and defenses.

It's not even worth discussing with people here.

I think once more people are on the receiving end they'll learn to respect the flame vehicles a little more.

Flame dmg is not a hetzer-specific issue. I think 100 fuel is fine for such a tank. It has average hp and average armor and has the standard flame dps formula. 100 fuel is perfect for such a tank with average stats all around. If you guys want cheaper, then its HP needs to be reduced to 400 or something, because then it would be a light tank, and who would want that? No one.

Regarding the fire dmg, I guess I'm unpopular but I think all the flame tanks are in a good place right now. Won't insta-wipe, but it'll make infantry sweat if there is one on the field.

Video. Please Please Please Please

Sorry forgot to save because we lost so easy.

But you can try destroing ice on semoskyy winter and then move with him

after few tries, this tank completely live up to my exception, it is a totally trash, only thing it is good is burn USF blob as it come so late, but USF just smoke it and go around attack ground of that poor thing. a turret less tank that can't fight other tanks

if Relic want it to be useful, give it earlier CP, the 16 pop, that can stay if and only if they let Hetzer able to do JP4 job too like KV-8 can do KV1 job. then it might become useful.

Hetzer problem is not the damage per se. I'm happy that flame weapons do not melt infantry like mega ultra death rays. The problem is its Cost and popcap for OKW. You can do a lot better with that amount of resources.

It should be cheaper (fuel and popcap, not MP) and come a tad sooner. Although the whole commander is not that interesting.

I think the main issue with streamlining everyone's flame damage is on infantry squads there are other squad members to put out damage like the strums, rifles and even combat engineers paying the fuel and popcap for units that will deal the less overall damage as an infantry counterpart won't make much sense

There are 4 problems:

-Flames were overnerf in general. Not the damage part rather than the ticks per second.
-Popcap
-Veterancy requirements
-Other vehicles have turrets. Croc still has a gun which deals 80dmg without crap penetration (in comparison to KV8).

Regarding the last point, i'll rather give it 40 range by default.

Imo Hetzer command points, fuel cost, population cost still too high.
OKW has fuel penalty so its costs more than 100 fuel actually.
Imo it doesn't performs good as Flakpanzer which also has turret, not to mention the Centaur... ( OP )
OKW Flakpanzer call-in cost also should be reduced.

Hetzer is a jesus tank. Last game i played samoskyi winter and it was able to go throught water (because ice was destroyed) like if there was ice , but there cant be ice after british nuke superiority

Thats cool, considering snow maps cannot be selected in auto-match.

Pull the other one, ja, its got bells on.

Imo Hetzer command points, fuel cost, population cost still too high.
OKW has fuel penalty so its costs more than 100 fuel actually.
Imo it doesn't performs good as Flakpanzer which also has turret, not to mention the Centaur... ( OP )
OKW Flakpanzer call-in cost also should be reduced.

Blasphemy, IT MIGHT BECOME USEFUL.

Although, fire is fire.

It should be normalised, We cannot expect lelic to compensate for fuel(burn temp). If historical accuracy was taken into account, which it shouldnt, allied tanks would pen 1/15 shots, and axis(Deutsch only) would pen 100%, as every single tank shell was HEAT(High Explosive, Anti-tank) Shaped charges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqMoFx0uwpo

Where as allied tanks used HE or AP, as they couldn't get the detonators/timers right within the shells to create an effective heat round, so the HE would explode harmlessly on armour (until late war, when the HE was often powerful enough to stun/shake a crew from an exterior hit, 122mm looking at you.) Or With the AP shell, which had no explosive charge, so required an ammo or engine hit to disable the tank, if the shell didnt bounce around within the interior. This was due to the fuse system within allied shells.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge#Munroe_effect
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartkerngeschoss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APCBC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(projectile)#Armour-piercing.2C_composite_rigid

The first allied attempt at creating a shaped charge, failed dismally in the PIAT and Bazooka weapons, the former being too weak and hard to use, the latter bein ineffective at anything but point blank or rear armour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank_warhead
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m9-bazooka.htm

Deutsch ammunition would penetrate the armour and then explode within the tank, most frequently causing a "catastrophic destruction"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box_effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophic_kill

TL;DR

Allies never mastered HEAT munitions for the Tank, and the infantry versions were ineffective.

Did they ninja Hetzer popcap from 16 to 12?

No Ninja, hotfix

No Ninja, hotfix

Oh, I missed that fix. Well doesnt matter still sucks and good only for lulz

-Other vehicles have turrets. Croc still has a gun which deals 80dmg without crap penetration (in comparison to KV8).

Surely this is the crux of the issue with the tank and the commander as a whole.
If it could swap to a "normal" main gun (like the KV-8) as well as the flame gun it would make much more sense.
Unless it can I am really missing something?

Oh, I missed that fix. Well doesnt matter still sucks and good only for lulz

Not sure what axis only players expected after prolonged "nerf flamers" campaign of last months
Players got exactly what they have asked for, flame unit for OKW as well as balanced flamers.

Surely this is the crux of the issue with the tank and the commander as a whole.
If it could swap to a "normal" main gun (like the KV-8) as well as the flame gun it would make much more sense.
Unless it can I am really missing something?

You actually are missing quite important thing.

KV-8 had its 75mm gun replaced by smaller, 45mm gun(disguised as normal 76mm, 45mm cannon was inside 76mm barrel) and flame thrower added to that.
There was no problem for KV-8 to use both, because they didn't excluded each other, flame thrower was mounted next to MG, cannon was next to it.

Flame hetzer had its 75mm gun completely removed and replaced by 14mm flamethrower.
Its impossible from any logical point of view for it to be anything else then flame tank in this variant.

I think the main issue with streamlining everyone's flame damage is on infantry squads there are other squad members to put out damage like the strums, rifles and even combat engineers paying the fuel and popcap for units that will deal the less overall damage as an infantry counterpart won't make much sense

Flame weapons do plenty of damage, but it's about painting the ground your opponent can walk on. Places flames behind cover etc punishes him for using such things, meaning that your supporting infantry have a huge advantage.

Honestly, the damage is fine as is. The only thing with the Hetzer is 8 cp is a bit late, would like to see it around 6-7 cp instead.

I don't know guys, I am liking the Sturmpios actually. You have to use Hetzer like an KV-8, it is not a typical Yolo axis tank!

Not sure what axis only players expected after prolonged "nerf flamers" campaign of last months
Players got exactly what they have asked for, flame unit for OKW as well as balanced flamers.

Flame nerf was okayish, still hetzer has no turret less armor less hp cant switch gun, compared to other flame tanks. Easy to see how much biased you are when u "defend" this tank.