all of those things come at a cost...HtD comes at no cost.
I'm sorry, you're wrong.
HTD needs to go
27 Jun 2013, 06:42 AM
#41
Posts: 396
27 Jun 2013, 06:48 AM
#42
Posts: 928
How to counter HTD
When the soviets use HTD, they probably intend to wait out with their PPSH and do that damage.
here's a little tip
Don't keep your infantry close. If you have Grens, move away so that their DPS is pitiful while you MG34 them to death. And use your rifle nades as well.
If you have a PG squad there, just throw a bundle. The Cons will either instantly get forced off or die.
When the soviets use HTD, they probably intend to wait out with their PPSH and do that damage.
here's a little tip
Don't keep your infantry close. If you have Grens, move away so that their DPS is pitiful while you MG34 them to death. And use your rifle nades as well.If you have a PG squad there, just throw a bundle. The Cons will either instantly get forced off or die.
Had fun doing this earlier
27 Jun 2013, 06:53 AM
#43
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
If HtD forces munis out of Ostheer for free then that's pretty sweet for the Soviets.
Signature by Ginnungagap
27 Jun 2013, 06:55 AM
#44
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedToo many free or low muni cost abilities on Sov.
I think many of Sov related concerns can be resolved simply with muni costs.
I also think Oorah and HtD should be mutually exclusive, meaning the doctrine replaces Oorah with HtD.
I think many of Sov related concerns can be resolved simply with muni costs.
I also think Oorah and HtD should be mutually exclusive, meaning the doctrine replaces Oorah with HtD.
27 Jun 2013, 06:58 AM
#45
Posts: 331
The Dave, you mean just like every 35+ german is spamming opel blitz commander and winning no matter how badly they loose the early game??
Oh no i lost both fuels, meh ill build 3 trucks and get twice his fuel income...
Congrats
an extremely fragile unit which costs 200 mp? if he can have three and keep them alive, you have not won the early game and are doing something extremely wrong. anyone with good skill can win against opel blitz, but against HtD they lose, mp wise or in terms of munitions
27 Jun 2013, 15:44 PM
#46
Posts: 396
This is also a game where you collect resources in your sectors over TIME...
If a squad in HtD just sits there for 3-5 minutes occupying a cutoff point or valuable resource point and disallowing you valuable resource/territory it just simply wastes time and allows them to gain resources and/or tech to tanks that they would otherwise not be allowed to do in traditional fashion. Different than the original coh in a more nuanced way, time is a much more valuable commodity than before because of the capping system circles. People just rush your resources and spam HtD constantly sitting there and denying you for prolonged periods of time.
Easy mode.
If a squad in HtD just sits there for 3-5 minutes occupying a cutoff point or valuable resource point and disallowing you valuable resource/territory it just simply wastes time and allows them to gain resources and/or tech to tanks that they would otherwise not be allowed to do in traditional fashion. Different than the original coh in a more nuanced way, time is a much more valuable commodity than before because of the capping system circles. People just rush your resources and spam HtD constantly sitting there and denying you for prolonged periods of time.
Easy mode.
27 Jun 2013, 15:58 PM
#47
Posts: 65
Is someone actually arguing that Soviets aren't OP?!
27 Jun 2013, 18:44 PM
#48
Posts: 255
I like the tip nullist, HtD to counter strafe ><.
Crazy guy, it is not always easy to hunt them down as they can deploy anywhere with the zone this leads to hiding trucks in tree's and other areas that screw with true sight.
DGN no soviets are not OP, HtD in cover yes most deffintly. are germans OP no i do not think so, but i do think opel blitz truck is. espically on larger maps where it is easier to hide it.
There are counters to HtD though costly, but those trucks arejust as tricky, mainly as you dont know they went opel untill either a strafe comes out or a tiger, you can go hunting for them if you think so, but as i have stated they can be hidden by truesight
Crazy guy, it is not always easy to hunt them down as they can deploy anywhere with the zone this leads to hiding trucks in tree's and other areas that screw with true sight.
DGN no soviets are not OP, HtD in cover yes most deffintly. are germans OP no i do not think so, but i do think opel blitz truck is. espically on larger maps where it is easier to hide it.
There are counters to HtD though costly, but those trucks arejust as tricky, mainly as you dont know they went opel untill either a strafe comes out or a tiger, you can go hunting for them if you think so, but as i have stated they can be hidden by truesight
27 Jun 2013, 19:04 PM
#49
Posts: 642
I like the tip nullist, HtD to counter strafe ><.
Crazy guy, it is not always easy to hunt them down as they can deploy anywhere with the zone this leads to hiding trucks in tree's and other areas that screw with true sight.
DGN no soviets are not OP, HtD in cover yes most deffintly. are germans OP no i do not think so, but i do think opel blitz truck is. espically on larger maps where it is easier to hide it.
There are counters to HtD though costly, but those trucks arejust as tricky, mainly as you dont know they went opel untill either a strafe comes out or a tiger, you can go hunting for them if you think so, but as i have stated they can be hidden by truesight
Opel Blitz trucks are not as OP as a lot of people put them out to be, not in 1v1 at least. They are, in many respects, just a "second" OP you can put on a sector, but a very fragile one.
They can hide them, but most of the times, if you know the map well, you know EXACTLY what the most defensive, ideal spot for that is. If you don't, then some map studies are in order. Sometimes they will defend their trucks well, but no matter what they do, indirect fire can get them most of the time (and Soviets excel at indirect warfare).
The early game is definitely dominated by the Soviets right now (but not by much), since they have the best tools, one to one, to deny the germans early map control (and by definition, blitz trucks) with the exception of their machine guns (MG42 benig better for area denial).
27 Jun 2013, 19:19 PM
#50
Posts: 255
well i try to be open minded and in so im open to this idea on countering it as i have extreme problems with this docrine.
But as this is a HtD thread ill let it be.
back on topic i think HtD is fine as long as the remove the stacking bonus and add a small (5) muni cost.
But as this is a HtD thread ill let it be.
back on topic i think HtD is fine as long as the remove the stacking bonus and add a small (5) muni cost.
27 Jun 2013, 20:44 PM
#51
Posts: 642
A 5 munition cost would be negligent to the Soviet Army, but something from 10-15 could start to make an impact if he simply blobs.
Think of it like Oorah!, your munition supplies dont ever really suffer because you send your 4 conscript spam into hussein bolt mode.
but tis a good start. The soviets need a little more munitions expenditure.
Think of it like Oorah!, your munition supplies dont ever really suffer because you send your 4 conscript spam into hussein bolt mode.
but tis a good start. The soviets need a little more munitions expenditure.
27 Jun 2013, 20:54 PM
#52
Posts: 101
A 5 munition cost would be negligent to the Soviet Army, but something from 10-15 could start to make an impact if he simply blobs.
Think of it like Oorah!, your munition supplies dont ever really suffer because you send your 4 conscript spam into hussein bolt mode.
but tis a good start. The soviets need a little more munitions expenditure.
agreed. just compare the munitions costs for both armies. almost everything german is 60+ munitions, while almost everything russian is 60 or less munitions (i actually cant think of anything over 60 munitions for sovs other than air support). both need fuel roughly equally so why the ammo costs so different?
20 munitions costs for HTD would be awesome
27 Jun 2013, 21:01 PM
#53
Posts: 255
i personally think 20 is too high as you normally have 4 squads or more which is 80 munis every time you want them all to hit it, + molos 10 to 15 sounds more reasonable yes.
27 Jun 2013, 21:06 PM
#54
Posts: 101
i personally think 20 is too high as you normally have 4 squads or more which is 80 munis every time you want them all to hit it, + molos 10 to 15 sounds more reasonable yes.
if the other munition costs for soviets were tweaked, i could understand 10-15.
27 Jun 2013, 21:19 PM
#55
Posts: 65
i personally think 20 is too high as you normally have 4 squads or more which is 80 munis every time you want them all to hit it, + molos 10 to 15 sounds more reasonable yes.
It should cost the same as popping smoke with a tank. 20 Mun.
27 Jun 2013, 21:19 PM
#56
Posts: 604
Munitions costs need to be rebalanced across the board anyways. They are all over the place and their effectiveness vs. cost varies too much.
27 Jun 2013, 22:09 PM
#57
Posts: 396
From Sepha's guide:
"I generally don’t recommend using this ability as it leaves you vulnerable to grenades. When active, your conscript squad loses the ability to move while gaining defensive bonuses, but you are unable to deactivate the ability for a short period of time. Any good Ostheer player will simply move back into decent cover or throw a grenade on top of you, forcing you to either retreat or hope the grenade doesn't do enough damage. Mortar fire is also an excellent counter to this ability."
/drunk.
"I generally don’t recommend using this ability as it leaves you vulnerable to grenades. When active, your conscript squad loses the ability to move while gaining defensive bonuses, but you are unable to deactivate the ability for a short period of time. Any good Ostheer player will simply move back into decent cover or throw a grenade on top of you, forcing you to either retreat or hope the grenade doesn't do enough damage. Mortar fire is also an excellent counter to this ability."
/drunk.
27 Jun 2013, 22:20 PM
#58
Posts: 101
From Sepha's guide:
"I generally don’t recommend using this ability as it leaves you vulnerable to grenades. When active, your conscript squad loses the ability to move while gaining defensive bonuses, but you are unable to deactivate the ability for a short period of time. Any good Ostheer player will simply move back into decent cover or throw a grenade on top of you, forcing you to either retreat or hope the grenade doesn't do enough damage. Mortar fire is also an excellent counter to this ability."
/drunk.
i lol'd. then i was rofl. so true dave
28 Jun 2013, 00:30 AM
#59
Posts: 642
i personally think 20 is too high as you normally have 4 squads or more which is 80 munis every time you want them all to hit it, + molos 10 to 15 sounds more reasonable yes.
The point is for Soviets not to be able to spam that ability everywhere. No other munitions ability in the game, with the exception of Oorah, can be spammed endlessly. The vet abilities cant be spammed because you dont always get that vet.
I'd like hit the Dirt to be an option for one or two of your units, which will open possibilities for defense, not a: run towards resource point. Hit the Dirt. Wait. Win.
The only infantry ability for Soviets I recall that surpasses 60 munitions, is the demo charge (at 90, I believe). Even satchel charges are 45.
28 Jun 2013, 03:06 AM
#60
Posts: 476
Many people say you should just walk back into cover. This doesn't work. If you try to keep your distance they will just walk behind you and shoot your backs. As soon as they are in Melee range (and they will get there even if you only run, because of Orah!.) they HtD.
So there is no use in running away prior to HtD.
If I run away with my Grenadiers after they Htd, I constanly lose 2 models untill I am in cover.
So there is no use in running away prior to HtD.
If I run away with my Grenadiers after they Htd, I constanly lose 2 models untill I am in cover.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
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