Soviets are now OP

As of right now...Soviets are completly overpowered.

Since lates patch, It feels like they can do pretty much anything and come out with a win.

Oshteer have almost NO flexibility.

Our Tier 1 is half useless....Mortars suck..Snipers are of no use.

Only Grens and MGs....and that gets beaten by anything Tier 0 or Tier 1 from soviets.

Map control is then lost....and from that point ANY tech path from soviets is valid...whereas ....Germans MUST go tier 2 and Scout car or ATgun to defend vs Clown car and T34s.

Soviets have more mobility and are cheaper..>AND right now theyre units are stronger...I mean WTF do conscripts get Molotovs at 25 munis a piece.....and Grens get Faust???? WTF am I gonna do with a faust in Tier 1 battle....cant Grens carry potato mashers??? I mean cmon!

Anybody else feels this?

Soviets are lame but not OP

you have to buy the upgrade for moloys, fausts are free.

Snipers do not suck, they are hard to counter soviets snipers but there quick rate of fire is good for killing elite infantry (I.E. there role) they might be cheaper but they are not better a P4 is only slightly more expensive than the 95 fuel t34 and it out classes the t34 in all respect except for the ram. which is useless when u only have 1 tank.

Soviets can not do everything, tech is very expensive, 40 fuel for t1, 50 fuel for t2 and 90 fuel for each of t3 and t4 it is very hard and almost pointless to get all tech buildings, which means if they go t1 then they wont be getting any HMG or AT guns, if they go t3 they wont have a hard counter to tanks.

The scout car is powerful yes BUT its perfect counter is the Faust which grens get for free!(not to activate it)

Soviets are good i do not dispute but they are not OP.

Genius Crells.

Problems solved.

soviets are lame + OP anyone who denies this is a soviet fan boy
Funny you say you cant counter M3 with faust which doesnt need teching lol does it one shot kill it ? engineers cant instantly repair that m3 ? and one more thing once they rush u with that car and flamers inside what do u have left to fight with ?

soviets are lame + OP anyone who denies this is a soviet fan boy
Funny you say you cant counter M3 with faust which doesnt need teching lol does it one shot kill it ? engineers cant instantly repair that m3 ? and one more thing once they rush u with that car and flamers inside what do u have left to fight with ?

Well I disagree, and btw I play Ost mostly.

IMO - they're strong, but they're not OP. I would much rather if the clown car were taken out the way it's being used. Conscripts are already very good as they are - there's no need for a flamer clown car or a sniper car.

And to those that can say double faust can solve the problem of the M3- good luck getting the faust in if it means being within the flame range of the scout car. 80 MP 25 fuel vs at least 80MP on your side for reinforcing (+ muni)?

I do not mind conscripts keeping most of the stuff they have, but the clown car takes things to a whole new level.

Flamers + M3 can actually be reasonably dealt with provided the map is smaller. On maps such as Kholondy I don't find this to be an issue with Ostheer. It is tasteless boring play I think, but it is not OP. On large maps you can sometimes get caught out and due to unit long retreat paths the flamer+retreat effect is amplified resulting in almost guaranteed squad losses.

On the other hand m3+sniper creates a different issue. This combination has more reward/less risk involved for the soviet player and the only MP efficient counter (asides from a nice faust/teller mine + ambush) for Ostheer is tech to t2 for an AC. A tech decision which becomes primarily reduntant asides from taking down damaged t70/su76's.

I would be curious to see the game with these tech structures.
Ostheer t1 = Grens, MG42, Scout car (upgrade available after t2 tech), Sniper.
Ostheer t2 = PG, Half-track, Mortar, Pak40.

Russian t1 = Penal, Scout car M3, Maxim machine gun.
Russian t2 = Sniper, Mortar, Zi3 atg.

It would break the quick link between M3 and snipers. I don't think this will happen though because I think Russian t2 is seen as support weapons team tech. Although it would reduce the 'lameness' of Soviets, as Crells stated prior it could increase the potential holes of Soviet teching.

well played stephennnnn, SC in T1 would be a great Idea, but still IMO Germans need some fast tank like T34, that's why Panzer III is needed in T2

I would be curious to see the game with these tech structures.
Ostheer t1 = Grens, mg, Scout car (upgrade available after t2 tech), sniper.
Ostheer t2 = PG, HT, Mortar , Pak40.

Russian t1 = Penal, Scout car M3, Maxim machine gun
Russian t2 = Sniper, Mortar, Zi3 atg.

That sounds awfully like VCoh, which isn't a bad idea at all!

Although i do agree with Barton. The Germans lack a light tank. In VCoH, it was the puma.

The only op things of soviets are the satchel charge of penal battalion and molotovs, for the rest they're okey.

Interesting ideas Steph!

Flamers + M3 can actually be reasonably dealt with provided the map is smaller. On maps such as Kholondy I don't find this to be an issue with Ostheer. It is tasteless boring play I think, but it is not OP. On large maps you can sometimes get caught out and due to unit long retreat paths the flamer+retreat effect is amplified resulting in almost guaranteed squad losses.

On the other hand m3+sniper creates a different issue. This combination has more reward/less risk involved for the soviet player and the only MP efficient counter (asides from a nice faust/teller mine + ambush) for Ostheer is tech to t2 for an AC. A tech decision which becomes primarily reduntant asides from taking down damaged t70/su76's.

I would be curious to see the game with these tech structures.
Ostheer t1 = Grens, MG42, Scout car (upgrade available after t2 tech), Sniper.
Ostheer t2 = PG, Half-track, Mortar, Pak40.

Russian t1 = Penal, Scout car M3, Maxim machine gun.
Russian t2 = Sniper, Mortar, Zi3 atg.

It would break the quick link between M3 and snipers. I don't think this will happen though because I think Russian t2 is seen as support weapons team tech. Although it would reduce the 'lameness' of Soviets, as Crells stated prior it could increase the potential holes of Soviet teching.

i add one more idea : only flamer troop from soviets = penal battalion not engineers
btw i am not so sure about scout car being in T1 it might break the game :/

I like the move of the 222 to T1. It already feels like a T1 unit anyway

Edit: And then maybe something like the Panzer II "Luchs" in T2. A light scout tank somehow similar to the T-70. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_II#Main_production_models. But of course its role should not overlap with the 222, hmm...

Edit 2: I also think Lynx will like this, since Luchs means Lynx

What bothers me is the weakness of Scout car without upgrade.
a M3 without crew wil win against it because it deals more damage but has about the same armor and health value... seems kinda unfair for a T2 unit.

So either make the upgrade cheaper so germans have a cost efficient way of dealing with M3 or make it T1.
Faust would be a nice counter if they didn't nerf the range for some reason. Now the scout car can just reverse while at max range from your grens and the flamer is still in range.
same goes for the FHT but that got nerfed enough (also it costs 120 munitions and T2 so it should be better).
the only thing i don't get about the FHT is that as soon as it hits vet 2 you do 0 damage to it with T34 for some odd reason, i mean yeah it should take less because it gets reduced by 55% but it just seems to not penetrate anymore and doing 0 damage (even though it displays a full hit)

Tbh, I think the scout car shift would make the Germans skipping to tier 2 unviable. Currently one of the main strengths of that is that you get a scout car or two to sort out vehicles or caches instead of relying on fausts for M3s. And I kind of like that mortars are tier 1 - gives you a good counter to the maxims.

i add one more idea : only flamer troop from soviets = penal battalion not engineers
btw i am not so sure about scout car being in T1 it might break the game :/

Flame penals or flame engineers it makes no difference. Ostheer have a way of dealing with flamers/M3 by double faust or faust with gren/mg fire. Ostheer possess no potential counter in t1 to counter a sniper/m3 that does not rely on the Soviet player making a mistake. The range is so large that it forces the Ostheer player onto the backfoot and essentially hide their units, until t2 comes. An extremely well planned ambush faust (hide, listen in fog of war and come out the moment you hear the vehicle come past due to small fuast range) or teller is the only way to counter this. Even if this does occur most the time the snipers quickly get out and retreat away. There is no way hunt them down or get into their retreat path. Why you can't get into their retreat path because if your that deep into their end of the field with your unit against M3 based play as Ostheer, whole squads will be destroyed upon retreat if they find you.

The scout car available for Ostheer in t1 will provide a form to still actively control the game rather being pushed around. If a Soviet player overextended their M3, Ostheer can place a 222 Scout Car behind it, block its reverse effectively trapping it and get a faust off. Altneratively the 222 Scout Car behaves as a deterant and will also create a bit of a repairing game. Similar tactics can also be utilized by the Soviet by utilizing conscript AT nades.

The problem I then see coming is that upgunned 222 Scout Cars might come to quickly and counter the M3/Sniper combo (available upon T2 and high upgrade time required). Either way at the moment it still feels like to me that Russians get Guard Rifles anywhere between 30-60secs after the upgunned SC becomes active on the field which provides a damn quick and instant build counter. Soviets can afford to concede ground during that time, lose a bit of map control and just keep that M3/sniper in alive til Guards move along side of it or get M3/Guards.

221 to T1 would give it an excellent role to fill!
Stephenn for President!

Another vehicle in T2.. nah, there's already the HT, the 221 with vet gains increased armor, and with upgrade to 222 available at T2 research it could potentially turn out pretty good. A T-70 should not be a hard counter though.

Edit: It would also fit perfectly with realism, since the scout cars were the first thing the soviets would meet before being attacked by the main army.

Just got beaten by excellent t70 micro. OP. remove them from the game IMO

If only there was a way to +k ppl, because I certainly would +k Stephen here. Brilliant suggestions

(Find a way to get those to vancouver ASAP )

I just watched a good friend get mauled by germans....certainly not OP at all. I was my friend Chunk of Metal vs CPU - HARD who goes hard Gren Spam to 1 mg...micros s good with them. Molitovs are a waste vs pro players, they just move out of the way. Only med/noob don't mivro well enough to deal with soviets. It's all about skill/tactics that win you a game in 1on1. If anything is OP it's Germans with P 4 rushes/gren spam.